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Combat requirements |
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Replies(20 - 36)
silmaril |
Mar 9 2005, 10:03 AM
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Master
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I'll start this thread off by looking at the points people have brought up in the main requirements thread then. Again these are just my personal opinions.
I think this is an important issue, but one that must be made implicit, and not explicit. By that I mean that a player should not be able to press a "I don't wanna fight" button and by that being able to move freely between mobs. There should however be areas of the world that are sparsely populated by mobs and/or is populated by non-agressive mobs.
A player deciding never to fight, should however either have to depend on players willing to fight to gain access to certain resources, merchants, NPCs, etc or accept that those are unavailable to him. Players taking on the risks of the world must have some reward other than just becoming better to fight.
I think this is a good requirement for how boss spawns are seen in some MMOGs where, after killing a bunch of mobs, a more powerful version of the same species spawn. Some mob groups should include a leader character though.
Again, I wouldn't have this as a strict requirement. First there must be spawn points, there will be too much killing for a realistic approach (mobs are born), so they must spawn, hence needing a spawn point. I would say that "unless under special circumstances like live content dictating it or special mob species, mobs should not have static spawn points".
Agreed. Archery should be affected by wind, visibility and obstacles. If fighting a mob with allied melee characters between the archer and the mob, the arrow should have a chance of hitting those in between. This will add more strategy to the combat element of the game.
Varied combat effects are good as long as they are indeed that. They must have different effects on your character, be healed in different ways and be inflicted in different ways.
Agreed. Having combat positions affect the moves you can make and the result of the actions you take will make it more interesting.
Aye.
By intuitive I assume it's a good GUI we're talking about, which is a good thing. The important thing is to remove the need for automated action by making it that much more interesting and rewarding to be an active participant in combat.
(I have skipped all the PvP topics for now. Not sure if they belong)
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silmaril |
Mar 10 2005, 01:26 AM
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Master
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Don't know if it has, but even if it has been, feel free to bring it up again here. It is the threads in the requirements forum that will form the basis of the game we will make.
Since playing the matrix online i have become aware of the beauty of having differing types of gameplay. It is very nice to have free fire mode where you can attack from a distance, and then be able to go in close for a different type of battle. Interlock combat they call it in MxO. Its advantages are its timing becomes precise (you can tell who does what and counters with what) and the graphics are given a special twist so they look really good.
Besides that there are differing modes of travel. Besides the usual faster buff there is also hyperjump, which changes the 3d feel of the universe immensely. What i am driving at in so many words,
Can we have differing modes of combat?
Times when you choose to be engaged in battle in a particular way which then higlights the event.
ie: the camera views may change, the music, your abilities all differ with differnt modes.
I think this is a very good idea. Making different parts of the game, even different parts of combat itself, different, can make for a very interesting game. Care must however be taken to make too drastic changes so players will see the initial learning curve of the game mechanics as too steep.
More detailed ideas on how this could be done would be very welcome I think :)
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Lucky_Luciano |
Mar 10 2005, 07:31 AM
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Seasoned User
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Agree. And give people a reason why there is a boss-character around (for example: cause they are guarding a treasure-chest, gathering resources for their evil plans, keeping hostages, etc...)
Again, I wouldn't have this as a strict requirement. First there must be spawn points, there will be too much killing for a realistic approach (mobs are born), so they must spawn, hence needing a spawn point. I would say that "unless under special circumstances like live content dictating it or special mob species, mobs should not have static spawn points".
Again, agree.
Agreed. Archery should be affected by wind, visibility and obstacles. If fighting a mob with allied melee characters between the archer and the mob, the arrow should have a chance of hitting those in between. This will add more strategy to the combat element of the game.
While this sounds beautiful, remember that PW will feature a PnC movement system. Stepping away from obstacles or side-stepping might not be *that* trivial. This will possible only induce frustration.
Varied combat effects are good as long as they are indeed that. They must have different effects on your character, be healed in different ways and be inflicted in different ways.
! :) I made a text about this some time ago, I'll post it here later on.
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Jerky |
Mar 10 2005, 05:52 PM
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Former PW Project Manager
Group: PW Admin
Posts: 1,610
Joined: 11-January 05
From: Dallas, GA
Member No.: 62
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I agree with all the items mentioned, but think there can even be more to it. With a different combat system that accounts for penalties and hit placement, we need something more to set us apart. That something could be combos. I don't know if this is something that would be good or not, I am just racking my brain for something fun to add to the game.
Combos could be something that is learned through character level, but it would be up to player skill to remember it and to do it right. This is like the game Blade of Darkness (Sword of Vengence) (which is one of my favorites as far as combat goes. I think this adds more than just 'clicking buttons' that the average MMORPG has to offer. Combos can be combos of combos, at high levels, which could lead to a thrid super combo. This could be open only to the very high skill levels.
Chime in, now is the time to help refine ideas like this. :)
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Erik Briggs (Jerky) Project Manager My Blog
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sblmnl |
Mar 11 2005, 06:34 PM
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Familiar Face
Group: Validating
Posts: 36
Joined: 11-January 05
Member No.: 114
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I agree with no "penalty" for changing in the sense that lets say I'm a mage who also has some skill in swords, if I take the trouble to carry a sword around with me I should be able to equip and use it (to the extent that my skill will allow) without any fuss. But unless I also change my armour I can expect to take a lot of damage at close quarters with the target...
I do agree though that if s/he wants to spend significant time training up swords the mage should have to sacrifice some expertise in some other skill/attribute - the skill decay idea mentioned in other threads would maybe suffice - but that's a different discussion.
In terms of combat, rather than getting into timer penalties or needing to go to an inn to change armour etc etc we can get around this particular issue easily (and realistically I think) by just making it *weigh* something.. therefore costing the mage reagent space if s/he decides to carry it around with him/her. Also, having to stop in the heat of battle, undress, and strap on your armour piece by piece, even if each piece is hotkey-able, would be risky enough that you'd think twice about doing it I reckon. And there could also be the possibility that when you die you might lose some of your xpensive armour ( and whatever else is lying around in your pack) - there didnt really seem to be enough risk attached to dying in PW, it was more of an inconvenience but again, thats another discussion.
To me the really attractive aspect of PW as that it was all about enabling individuals to make their own risk/reward choices, not "you cant do this here" and lots of rules/restrictions. Let's not lose sight of it, even in relatively minor decisions like that... and keeping it simple is usually the best solution ;-)
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sblmnl |
Mar 11 2005, 07:12 PM
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Familiar Face
Group: Validating
Posts: 36
Joined: 11-January 05
Member No.: 114
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Can we have differing modes of combat?
Times when you choose to be engaged in battle in a particular way which then higlights the event.
ie: the camera views may change, the music, your abilities all differ with differnt modes.
I think this is a very good idea. Making different parts of the game, even different parts of combat itself, different, can make for a very interesting game. Care must however be taken to make too drastic changes so players will see the initial learning curve of the game mechanics as too steep.
More detailed ideas on how this could be done would be very welcome I think :)
I havent played MXO - so perhaps Im not undestanding what you're describing properly - but rather than having "modes" which sounds a bit clunky could it be done seamlessly according to the type of weapon you have equipped?
Example: bows in Wish couldn't shoot accurately closer than their range (or at all actually) so in PW if you are within bowshot range for your particular weapon you'd be in the free-fire mode; then if you run closer than your range, when you pull your dagger from your belt you'd be in close range mode - the point is it should happen behind the scenes, all you should need to *do* is move and equip your weapon. This would dovetail pretty well with the tactical archery/spatial ideas earlier in this thread I think - contingent on the movement system being very very smooth and intuitive.
I really like the idea of "learning" combat combos and advanced combos too. Makes sense from a rp pov as well, you spend all that time practicing with your sword/staff/whatever, you should be able to do more than just thwack something with it. Where appropriate to the race/weapon type, I'd like to see some elegant chinese-style moves - even down to the animation for sheathing/unsheathing weapons.
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0 |
Mar 12 2005, 11:10 PM
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Unregistered
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I havent played MXO - so perhaps Im not undestanding what you're describing properly - but rather than having "modes" which sounds a bit clunky could it be done seamlessly according to the type of weapon you have equipped?
This is the beauty of the interlock system. In MxO you aren't really "equipped" with a weapon until combat. There is two distinct ways of doing combat. Ranged, and close ranged(interlock). If you initialize combat with a program, ranged ability, or gun you'll be in ranged combat. You'll be free to move around like in most games. However, if you...
1. Engage an opponent in melee combat
2. Engaged by an opponent in melee combat(even if you were using a ranged weapon)
3. Switch to a range weapon after engaging an opponent in melee combat
You'll be in interlock which is the close ranged fighting system. You can still use your gun, ranged abilities, programs, etc... its just now you are stuck in this rockem-sockem system and are within melee range of your opponent.
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