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> Clothing Size, Tailors, and Accessories, Another random thought
mortideus
post Dec 23 2007, 02:07 PM
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As I got dressed this morning, I put on pants too big for me, and actually wore them out of my house, for about half a day. I noticed that it slowed me down quite a bit. I went home, grabbed a belt and strapped it on. My mobility and agility increased quite a bit. I'm not sure if we discussed this before, but I looked for a topic, and couldn't manage to find one.

Almost none of the races are different sizes. Some tall, some small, some thin, some fat, and almost none the same. However, when I kill a 60 ft dragon, and he drops his pants, regardless of where he actually wore them, I doubt they would be my size, but somehow, they manage to "magically" fit me. Why don't I have to take them to a tailor instead, to get them resized.

If clothes are too small, you have should have to take them to a tailor to get them resized. If you go up more than one size, you may have to get more material for the clothes before they can be resized. If you are too small, you should have to either wear a belt or get them resized to a smaller size.

This would let people who have skill in tailoring do more than make good clothing, but actually adjust what is found elsewhere in the world. I believe it would help improve player interaction, and make it seam a little more real....

That or just make small pants appear really really small on trolls, which in my opinion would look wrong. tongue.gif


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Hankellin
post Dec 25 2007, 07:51 AM
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QUOTE(mortideus @ Dec 23 2007, 12:07 PM) *

As I got dressed this morning, I put on pants too big for me, and actually wore them out of my house, for about half a day. I noticed that it slowed me down quite a bit. I went home, grabbed a belt and strapped it on. My mobility and agility increased quite a bit. I'm not sure if we discussed this before, but I looked for a topic, and couldn't manage to find one.

Almost none of the races are different sizes. Some tall, some small, some thin, some fat, and almost none the same. However, when I kill a 60 ft dragon, and he drops his pants, regardless of where he actually wore them, I doubt they would be my size, but somehow, they manage to "magically" fit me. Why don't I have to take them to a tailor instead, to get them resized.

If clothes are too small, you have should have to take them to a tailor to get them resized. If you go up more than one size, you may have to get more material for the clothes before they can be resized. If you are too small, you should have to either wear a belt or get them resized to a smaller size.

This would let people who have skill in tailoring do more than make good clothing, but actually adjust what is found elsewhere in the world. I believe it would help improve player interaction, and make it seam a little more real....

That or just make small pants appear really really small on trolls, which in my opinion would look wrong. tongue.gif



Spandex Armor.... tongue.gif



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RicoSuave
post Dec 26 2007, 08:25 PM
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I do *NOT* want to see a troll wearing spandex; you hear me, Jerky? If your art team starts down that path, you whip them back in line! wacko.gif Can you imagine the repugnant odor wafting the world over? It would put Gassy to shame. ohmy.gif Not even the fires of Mount Doom could cleanse that funk.

Mort, I remember this topic as well way back, but can't seem to find it either. And I'm not sure why a dragon would be wearing human chainmail either. It's not like dragon scale is brittle and a good plate covering is what he needs to survive.

[rant]That's something I would like to see PW get away from in a sense... the extreme dependency upon gear. Whatever happened to the good old, "You put down your rock and I put down my sword and we try to kill each other like civilized people?" An epic weapon should be just that... EPIC, unique, not farmable.[/rant]

I agree with Mort. Let's have this be a part of character interaction.
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Jerky
post Dec 26 2007, 11:57 PM
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I agree Rico, I think stats and gear should not be linked so much that people can chart it and put it up on some wiki on the net. I personally would like to see loot more like Diablo and/or Guild Wars. Of course, it needs more depth than that, but you get the idea. I like the randomness of having so many combinations of possible drops ( # types of items dropped from this mob x # of stat combinations from given items x whatever else) that it would be impossible to chart and predict. If everything is unique, or darn near to it, then the dynamic of endgame content changes greatly.


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Maxwell
post Dec 28 2007, 02:51 PM
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Mort I like that idea. The player interaction would be great. I think that's why I loved wish so much. There was player interaction to get stuff done. Which leads into a better community, instead of one where everyone is out to get everything for themselves. Also an element of trust is then added.

Good idea Mort!


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Hankellin
post Dec 31 2007, 08:01 AM
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I recall getting the arrowhead mold from a miner/forge crafter to make my arrows for my composite longbow.

The interactions required for that were simple and straight forward.

Getting the saddle bags for my pony were a lot harder. tongue.gif

Now a Troll in spandex.. Recall the Incredible Hulk series with Bill Bixby where the guest "Star" was Thor.. He called the Hulk a troll.... and the Hulk wore spandex shorts and green hose... ohmy.gif

This post has been edited by Hankellin: Dec 31 2007, 08:02 AM


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Brotoi
post Jan 7 2008, 12:53 AM
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Personally, I think the real question is not the size, but why a dragon is dropping chain mail to begin with!

One of the interesting (and often frustrating) aspects of Wish was the reasonable drops. You killed something, then "butchered" and "looted" it. The beast in question produced appropriate meat, skins, and scales when butchered, and reasonable add-ons when looted. For animal enemies, I always considered "looting" to be removing the stomach contents, or perhaps pulling off weapons/items trapped in it's outer skin/exoskeleton. And of course, some enemies could be either butchered or looted but not both.

Not that we need restrict ourselves to the Wish formula. Maintaining the idea of reasonableness, however, is a very good starting point.

A wolf, for example, should not be dropping a long sword. It might have an arrowhead or two stuck in a scarred over or festering body wound, maybe a small knife (for a Dire wolf), but a wolf with a long sword trapped in its body would not be reasonable.

Naturally, a humanoid NPC enemy might have armor, weapons, jewels, coins, and whatnot, while "butchering" it would not produce anything useful except perhaps skin and bones (esp. for something large and tough, like a troll), at most, a head or hand if those items are important in some kind of magical or medicinal crafting/ritual.

One idea I've always wanted to see in a game would be an NPC enemy that collects items from players it defeats. If you die to a wolf, maybe the wolf swallows your coin purse and you lose a few small coins. As the wolf kills more players, it collects more coins. When it collects too many it dies and decays into a wolf corpse which yet another player would stumble across while out exploring. If a player defeats the wolf and remembers to loot the corpse, they receive the coins the wolf has collected. Butchering, of course, would produce skin, bones, and meat (and other body parts with crafting applications).

If NPC enemies collected some small token from players they defeat it both adds a reasonable death penalty and increases the lucky dynamic of happening upon a "rich" enemy that drops a small fortune when defeated. This would also remove the need for randomized drops and respawning "treasure". NPCs have a "minimum" return of items for being defeated, looted, and butchered, a "maximum" return that results in their dying alone and leaving a "treasure chest"-like find for some lucky explorer, and something in between depending on how many players the NPC has previously defeated.

A minimum for a normal wolf, for example, might mean that butchering produces a usuable skin, some bones or bone fragments, some meat, a wolf tail, a wolf head, and four wolf paws. If the player defeats the wolf with fire magic, a sword, axe, or knife there is no usuable skin and no bone fragments, while the head and number of paws might depend on how many attacks the player needed to defeat the wolf (simulated damage assessment). If the player uses ice magic, water magic, a cudgel, or a hammer, there is a usable skin, but only bone fragments and no skull. If the player uses a handful of arrows, the minimum drop is complete.

This would add even greater appeal to raid bosses and the like because it is highly possible they could collect vast amounts of coin and items before dying or being defeated. As long as every NPC enemy has a minimum item drop of some kind (so no one feels left out and no one ever defeats an enemy only to receive nothing for their effort), the dynamic of an unknown item/coin maximum (short of finding a corpse) would add a whole new dimension to the game.

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Honis
post Jan 8 2008, 12:48 AM
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I just finish reading Eldest the sequil to Eragon (don't watch the movie, unless you have NO intention of reading the book. The movie ruins the ending and does more than butcher the storyline).

I liked how the valable weapons were made rather than found on dead enemy's. Dwarf bows are made out of a horn that grows on another "humanoid" creature. Taking a REALLY long time and lengthy process, the bow is a short bow with the power and accuracy of a yew long bow. Here the valuable drop off the enemy was the Horn.

The elves 'sing' to the trees, a request in a term for the tree to form a branch that is bow shaped, increadablly tensioned, and the best anyone can make. Here its a process that takes as long as it takes to grow a branch, depending on the tree several years.

The humans of course use traditional methods of yew tensioning.

I think the valuable drops should be the animal parts that can then be used to make equipment, yew (animal tendons), horns, evil elf tree branch...

Like most of you have said, a bunny shouldn't drop a holy grail of equipment. If its protecting it, why not have it displayed next to the creature, then the classes would have a chance to do what they all do best
Thief - sneak past
Fighter - kill the bunny
Mage - cast a status effect spell (sleep) or set it on fire from the inside!
If it requires a group, the fighter and mages could act as destractions drawing the beast away while the thief or someone slip by. This sounds like a more realistic and worth while gameplay that I havn't seen to much of, even in single player games. Not to mention in most cases the beast would be left alive and open to go out and regain his horde. (GM controlled maybe?)

If the bunny kills everything, its horde increases with death penalty drops from players (depending on death penalties) (I know we have a thread for this somewhere).


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RicoSuave
post Jan 8 2008, 07:34 AM
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QUOTE(Honis @ Jan 8 2008, 01:48 AM) *
... If the bunny kills everything...
"Three shall be the number of the count, and the number of the counting shall be three." Maybe the Spandex-troll was guarding the Holy Linchpin. wink.gif

AGREE! (Circle gets the square)
Honis, I love that idea. What are your thoughts concerning being able to make a helmet or fashionable piece of clothing in under an hour from the now-readily available materials? I realize that there is an amount of realism we wish to supply to the game, but also want the players to be able to PLAY the game. I'm interested in hearing a few ideas.
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Honis
post Jan 12 2008, 12:05 AM
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QUOTE(RicoSuave)
...but also want the players to be able to PLAY the game.


What? Players playing the game? I'm not much of a crafter in any game I've played. Wish was the only game that I took crafting seriously, mostly because it was the safest way to increase some attributes (strength mostly). EQ2, FFXI, Wish, etc. the only playing of the game I did while crafting was avoiding death while farming materials.

EQ2 stretched out the crafting of items by having make the pommel, hand guard, blade, etc all separately. So it could take an hour to produce everything to make a sword if you started with raw material. FFXI relies on its buddy system (aka forced player to player interaction) to make anything of value in a respectable amount of time (requiring a few hours, the actual crafting takes seconds).

What if you could play as 2 characters at the same time. Everyone gets a warrior class and some merchant/crafter. The crafter would work mostly as an NPC, just a hired worker specific to the player. This is the character that learns crafting. By doing this, setting longer (closer to real-time) crafting would still allow the player to go out and do the hero thing or do the farming thing to keep the spice flowing. Set the crafter to make something till the material runs out, single time, certain amount, and then let it do its thing. I still think if PW does the attribute increase thing Wish did, that players who use there PC should get them.

Imagine having your PC/warrior work for your PC/crafter as an apprentice! What if the 2 characters were interchangeable?
A crafter gets a taste for blood when he successfully defends his store from a goblin raid while his supply guy/hero was out looting some castle!

I'm trying to get the passive skill learning feature of Eve integrated in some part. Two player characters on at the same time sounds like logistics nightmare switching AI between the 2 as a player switches (just one of the aspects).


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Hankellin
post Jan 19 2008, 08:04 AM
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QUOTE(Honis @ Jan 11 2008, 10:05 PM) *

~SNIP~

Imagine having your PC/warrior work for your PC/crafter as an apprentice! What if the 2 characters were interchangeable?
A crafter gets a taste for blood when he successfully defends his store from a goblin raid while his supply guy/hero was out looting some castle!

I'm trying to get the passive skill learning feature of Eve integrated in some part. Two player characters on at the same time sounds like logistics nightmare switching AI between the 2 as a player switches (just one of the aspects).



I like the spot I put in bold. If we as Players could train other Players our craft/skill..

But limit it to once the player reached mastery lvl of a portion....

I am playing LoTRO at the moment and I like there break down of crafting.. you can master one section while continuing to work on a more advanced area.

So a PC that mastered how to make a plain shirt can teach one or two apprentices how to make the shirt while he/she is still learing to make a sequined wedding dress...





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RicoSuave
post Jan 22 2008, 07:34 PM
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QUOTE(Hankellin @ Jan 19 2008, 08:04 AM) *
... So a PC that mastered how to make a plain shirt can teach one or two apprentices how to make the shirt while he/she is still learning to make a sequined wedding dress...
I would like to see the low-level crafted items be useable for SOMEthing in the game (i.e. taverns with a no-shirt, no-service policy would force players to buy at least some types of linen-crafted item from a tailor). If we stick with that idea, we could easily implement a dress-code with certain clothing required for certain situations (townhall meetings, player-run or admin-run; deity-related buildings; etc.).

{I apologize for the stream of consciousness} Along the lines of that last idea, what if you had a certain uniform or robe you had to wear to train certain spells (for example) at a certain place? What if the magery guild turned you away for smelling like an ox?.. better go see your local alchemist for some good ol', level zero, run of the mill, SOAP! Let's make the low-end craftable items WORTH something. Is anyone else sick and tired of making low-end items just to throw them away, or is it just me? laugh.gif

-Rico
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Honis
post Jan 24 2008, 11:02 AM
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QUOTE(RicoSuave @ Jan 22 2008, 01:34 PM) *

I would like to see the low-level crafted items be useable for SOMEthing in the game (i.e. taverns with a no-shirt, no-service policy would force players to buy at least some types of linen-crafted item from a tailor). If we stick with that idea, we could easily implement a dress-code with certain clothing required for certain situations (townhall meetings, player-run or admin-run; deity-related buildings; etc.).

{I apologize for the stream of consciousness} Along the lines of that last idea, what if you had a certain uniform or robe you had to wear to train certain spells (for example) at a certain place? What if the magery guild turned you away for smelling like an ox?.. better go see your local alchemist for some good ol', level zero, run of the mill, SOAP! Let's make the low-end craftable items WORTH something. Is anyone else sick and tired of making low-end items just to throw them away, or is it just me? laugh.gif

-Rico



I like all of these ideas! Knights didn't run around town in full plate armor in there hometowns! People wore chainmail under shirts! Mages wear robes and nice clothes in the house of the elders but looked like Gandalf when they were off getting hobbits into trouble. (I think this plays into some stuff Pandra has said on IRC, mostly involving female PCs wearing sexy cloths >_>).


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