MarVellis - Screenshots Options

[Lasastard]

Hi,

havent found another thread to post this in, so here goes.
First of all: Thumbs up, good to see that you apparently start to make some progress on the world-building. The lightning already looks quite nice - but (there is of course always a "but")---

The scenery looks wrong, not what I would expect from a fantasy game with elves and so on. My first thought when I looked at the screenshots, was that it reminds me a bit of Counter Strike - Italy or another FPS whos name I cant remember right now. It just does not look like fantasy. Hard to put the finger on what is wrong exactly, but it looks too modern (modern Venice, maybe)- The Houses are just cubes with brick textures - too improve the overall feeling of this city you might want to break up the architecure, try to get some inspiration from the internet maybe...
If it is a slum-like backyard that you wanted to show us here, make it darker - darker textures, more wood or granite stones and so on. Anyway, it might be a good idea to rework the architectural style; as it is now it looks like early 20th century Venice or New York, dunno...

Cheers,

Lasa

[Cobra]

Hi Lasa,

I'm glad you like the screenshots. I greatly appreciate your input on our art, as i created most of the textures and models in those screenshots. (one of the buldings was done by Bird).

We are, actually, going for a very Venice like theme, but it was never our intention to go modern. I understand what you mean by not having that 'fantasy feel' to it, and it's something i'd love to work on. Unfortunately, it's very hard to create such a feel when trying to create a very ancient replica of Venice, especially since there are no images to illustrate the city in that time. When we progress, you'll also see alot of things change. There will be more narrow canals, there will be bridges, more props, more boats, more people, etc etc. It will also feel much more cozy (the black lines in the first image are actually intended to be "clothesracks"). One thing also making the images look a little bland is the fact that there are only 2 building types in them. We are not ready to show the rest wich we have in the pipeline, but there will be ALOT more variation in the final city.

I'm glad you liked them, and i will take your critiscism to heart.

EDIT: I'll attach a great source of inspiration when modelling for the city. This is the kind of look we want to do, but less modern, of course. Credits to whoever created that repository.

http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~ammons/FromDad/Venice/


Cobra

[StaticGrazerr]

I personaly don't have a problem with the pictures, it's just that..well...

There's only 2 of em. ^,^

[GageEndal]

Alright, I want to explain my vote. I am the one who said that you could do better, but I don't mean it in a bad way! The art is fantastic and the detail is pretty awesome for the first run. The problem that I saw is that they are VERY dark. If that is the idea then rock on, you guys did a perfect job and I retract my vote. Keep it up and press on, if you guys have day/night in and it was getting dusk that would make sense too, but if that was high-noon there may be problems later on.

Once again, GREAT job with the artwork and detail, the canal was very nice and you even decorated the place with flowers and nick-nacks. The art, design, and layout are gorgeious, I just think it needs to be a bit brighter (not pinks and yellows, but raise the tones a bit so we can see some more of that great detail you guys have put into it.


-----------------------

I just figured out why it's so dark. There is no reflective light. I see the sun shining on that building in the distance, but it's not reflecting off of anything. That's why there is all that black up there. Finding some way to reflect light will easily fix that problem and it can have cool after effects too, like when you see a knight riding up to you, the light can reflect off the armor giving an uber-cool effect for viewers. Perhaps also making it so you can see them from a distance and prepare to attack ((eg))

My sister was over my shoulder and she thought the canal kind of looked like a street, but that is probrobly just because there was no light on it and it wasn't moving, I got the canal right away.

[Cobra]

[quote1144536714=GageEndal]
Alright, I want to explain my vote. I am the one who said that you could do better, but I don't mean it in a bad way! The art is fantastic and the detail is pretty awesome for the first run. The problem that I saw is that they are VERY dark. If that is the idea then rock on, you guys did a perfect job and I retract my vote. Keep it up and press on, if you guys have day/night in and it was getting dusk that would make sense too, but if that was high-noon there may be problems later on.

Once again, GREAT job with the artwork and detail, the canal was very nice and you even decorated the place with flowers and nick-nacks. The art, design, and layout are gorgeious, I just think it needs to be a bit brighter (not pinks and yellows, but raise the tones a bit so we can see some more of that great detail you guys have put into it.


-----------------------

I just figured out why it's so dark. There is no reflective light. I see the sun shining on that building in the distance, but it's not reflecting off of anything. That's why there is all that black up there. Finding some way to reflect light will easily fix that problem and it can have cool after effects too, like when you see a knight riding up to you, the light can reflect off the armor giving an uber-cool effect for viewers. Perhaps also making it so you can see them from a distance and prepare to attack ((eg))

My sister was over my shoulder and she thought the canal kind of looked like a street, but that is probrobly just because there was no light on it and it wasn't moving, I got the canal right away.
[/quote1144536714]


Thanks for the input GageEndal. The lightning will be most likely tweaked in the end, but it looks diffirent vanilla aswell. The images have been photoshopped slightly (contrast) wich make them look rather dark in areas.

In venice the canals are kind of like the streets, just boats instead of cars :P

Now i'm off to bed, thank god those 2 kegs are finished..

[Bird]

Hey all,

First of all i'd like to thank you for the compliments. great to have some support eh? ;)

hmmm about what lasastard said;
i do think it may look a slight bit too modern indeed, however i dont think the issue needs alot of structural changing to either the model or the texture itself, what i see is that it looks too smooth to fit in a historic time line. what could be done maybe is testing with darker tone on the brick skin and maybe add some dark foilage on the walls. however that will all be looked into in the future i guesse ;) but thanks for noticing, i know i appreciate it

[Maxwell]

I personally think they are wonderful Screenshots.

With that said most screenshots in the early stages really do not represent the games actual Screens.

Thats why I try not to judge a screenshot unless it is a player shot from late beta tests.

Great Job Guys

[mortideus]

Wow.. these screenshots are absolutely marvelous! I was hit with shock when I saw these and was totally astonished. This is truley amazing work and I hope to see more work of this potential showing up. :)

[GageEndal]

[quote1144564469=Lasastard]
The scenery looks wrong, not what I would expect from a fantasy game with elves and so on. My first thought when I looked at the screenshots, was that it reminds me a bit of Counter Strike - Italy or another FPS whos name I cant remember right now. It just does not look like fantasy. Hard to put the finger on what is wrong exactly, but it looks too modern (modern Venice, maybe)- The Houses are just cubes with brick textures - too improve the overall feeling of this city you might want to break up the architecure, try to get some inspiration from the internet maybe...
If it is a slum-like backyard that you wanted to show us here, make it darker - darker textures, more wood or granite stones and so on. Anyway, it might be a good idea to rework the architectural style; as it is now it looks like early 20th century Venice or New York, dunno...

Cheers,

Lasa
[/quote1144564469]

that was something I had noticed also, they did seem a bit more like the "Ole' West with a Canal" when I first saw them. Once again, don't get me wrong, I couldn't figure out half of what you did to do that, and this is the very first stage of the very first thoughts of this very big project. If this is to be a major city one would need to ask a few things about it's layout.

1) Why would they build on the canal? Is there more to the city beyond the canal areas where the common folk live and this is more of a watefront area?

2) What timeline are we trying to shoot for? Do we want more of a Roman style or the Venice style (which we seem to have here)? How do these people live their day to day lives? And my favorite... how and where do they go to the bathroom?

3) What kind of people will be walking and working here? Since the roads are made of water (and probrobly not the cleanest of water), will there be taxi-boats floating around for players to ride on? I know I would hate to have to walk across town having to search for bridges everywhere as my only option.


Also, after checking the photos you were referencing out, I have to say.. awesome job on the likeness. If you guys have the raw images and want some light/dark photoshop ubermagic, toss them my way. I can get us seeing the light of day (pun intended).

[Cobra]

[quote1144586850=GageEndal]
[quote1144564469=Lasastard]
The scenery looks wrong, not what I would expect from a fantasy game with elves and so on. My first thought when I looked at the screenshots, was that it reminds me a bit of Counter Strike - Italy or another FPS whos name I cant remember right now. It just does not look like fantasy. Hard to put the finger on what is wrong exactly, but it looks too modern (modern Venice, maybe)- The Houses are just cubes with brick textures - too improve the overall feeling of this city you might want to break up the architecure, try to get some inspiration from the internet maybe...
If it is a slum-like backyard that you wanted to show us here, make it darker - darker textures, more wood or granite stones and so on. Anyway, it might be a good idea to rework the architectural style; as it is now it looks like early 20th century Venice or New York, dunno...

Cheers,

Lasa
[/quote1144564469]

that was something I had noticed also, they did seem a bit more like the "Ole' West with a Canal" when I first saw them. Once again, don't get me wrong, I couldn't figure out half of what you did to do that, and this is the very first stage of the very first thoughts of this very big project. If this is to be a major city one would need to ask a few things about it's layout.

1) Why would they build on the canal? Is there more to the city beyond the canal areas where the common folk live and this is more of a watefront area?

2) What timeline are we trying to shoot for? Do we want more of a Roman style or the Venice style (which we seem to have here)? How do these people live their day to day lives? And my favorite... how and where do they go to the bathroom?

3) What kind of people will be walking and working here? Since the roads are made of water (and probrobly not the cleanest of water), will there be taxi-boats floating around for players to ride on? I know I would hate to have to walk across town having to search for bridges everywhere as my only option.


Also, after checking the photos you were referencing out, I have to say.. awesome job on the likeness. If you guys have the raw images and want some light/dark photoshop ubermagic, toss them my way. I can get us seeing the light of day (pun intended).
[/quote1144586850]

1) The whole city is actually built on water, ala Venice, therefore there are canals everywhere :)
2)The overall theme is Venice, a city on water. Creating a city like this will take some research, but our great story team is also working hard on creating a backstory for the city and it's inhabitants. Drainage will be in similar style Venice had during it's early years, however, i still don't know how they went about it (floating turds anyone? :P)

3)Yes, there will be alot of 'taxi boats', a.k.a 'Gondolas'. These are present in the modern venice aswell, but there will be large amounts of bridges anyways, so it's not something to worry about. We are also aiming for this city to be HUGE. So huge that you can actually get lost in the many alleyways, corridors and canals.

[RicoSuave]

I really hope there is a Slums District with a few muggings from time-to-time. %-6

Questions:
1) Are we going to be able to own pre-built houses/shops in Marr Vellis?
2) Will these houses/shops be "attackable/destuctable" or are they static?

All in all, very well done. I do agree with the majority of the posts however that we would like to see a bit more fantasy and a bit less modernism. Perhaps more wood, less brick -- I dunno. Thanks PW Dev Team! We love you guys !heart !

[Cobra]

[quote1144679159=RicoSuave]
I really hope there is a Slums District with a few muggings from time-to-time. %-6

Questions:
1) Are we going to be able to own pre-built houses/shops in Marr Vellis?
2) Will these houses/shops be "attackable/destuctable" or are they static?

All in all, very well done. I do agree with the majority of the posts however that we would like to see a bit more fantasy and a bit less modernism. Perhaps more wood, less brick -- I dunno. Thanks PW Dev Team! We love you guys !heart !
[/quote1144679159]

Thanks for the comments!

1) Not decided yet, but discussed greatly. This will be decided in the future, with the help of the community.
2)There is no 'destroyed' mesh for the buildings, and therefore they are not destructible. THis would practically double or triple the workload and that's not sometihng we can take on right now :)


Glad you liked it!

[Rizen]

I think the images, in terms of quality, look amazing. I was completely blown away, not expecting anything of that quality. Deffinitely a job well done, my cheers go out to the Art Team (with the exception of myself, who has been too busy moving to CO to get much work in, and had hitherto been inactive).

I also just wanted to voice my "constructive criticism". As was mentioned before, I think the overall feel of the images is a bit modern, particularly the first shot. I think that this is first somewhat due to metal textures used in some of the constructions, such as the balconies outside the windows. More importantly, the colors of the city--being either grey or a somewhat neutral form of another color--create, in my mind at least, a sort of industrial feel, as if it was from the early 1900's.

Also, and this is easily my mistake, I thought that the colors of the city were supposed to be themed more around yellow and blue. I think even by using these colors, the city will obtain a more "fantastical" feel to it.

Perhaps another thing which may or may not make a difference is the material of the buildings. I think it was mentioned in one of the threads about Marr Vellis that the buildings would be made out of stucco, as opposed to brick. The stucco (a very good image: http://www.finisheswithflair.com/images/Pi...Pics/Stucco.JPG ) would probably create a more authentic and past-setting feel to the city.

Anyway, these are just my personal thoughts and ideas on how to help improve. I know it's much easier to critique than to work, and so I have to say again how impressed I am with these shots. Congratulations again on a job (very) well done.

(Oh, here..I just found a couple shots of Venice which might help in creating models that don't seem quite as modern:
http://www.brodyaga.ru/images/Italy/Venice...brodyaga.ru.jpg
http://www.loudthinking.com/albums/venice/aaa.jpg

Or, you can check out this site, which has a couple pictures which are really good. It's in slideshow format, but even since the pictures will keep changing, you can slow them down as well as save them still
http://www.loudthinking.com/gallery/slides...lbumName=venice )

[Mole]

Great feedback, everyone! I liked all of the positive comments, and I really appreciated the way everyone gave constructive criticism on the renders.

I know this has been pointed out before, but I want to stress it again. These renders are more concept art then they are actual implementation. We are using these to get a feel for what you all want to see.

Many of you caught the idea of Venice in these renders, and that style of architecture is what we are basing our first city, Marr Vellis on. The city is going to be quite large, with lots of areas to explore, and will have a lot of different architecture.

Keep your suggestions and comments coming; all this feedback is great!

-Mole

[Hamilton]

I think the picture are very well done and that using Venice is a good original idea.

And it provides something good to see when coming to the site.