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> Vampirism and Lycanthropy
Rizen
post Jul 19 2005, 01:34 PM
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I think it might be an interesting concept to allow characters to become infected with vampirism and lycanthropy. This means that a character has the possibility of becoming a vampire or werewolf. This would come about after someone is bitten by those respective creatures.

The main issues I could think of were for those who didnt want to be infected, and characters infecting other players. I think for players who dont want to be infected, there could be a short waiting period after being infected for the character to take a certain potion or get healed by a priest or something. Perhaps there could be a way to prevent characters from infecting one another when attacking, assuming some sort of PvP is integrated. Since that idea does rely on there being PvP, I wont focus as much on that.

Also, I suppose there should be a way to limit the number of people who become infected. First, it might not be very likely for someone to be infected. Vamps and wolves could either be powerful enough that n00bs couldnt just bump into them, get infected, and run away without being slaughtered. Or, they could just be in a place so far out that n00bs would never really be able to find them. It could also be possible to make it that the blow that infects the character is a critical one, so that weaker characters wouldnt be able to survive it.
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exocrine
post Jul 19 2005, 05:40 PM
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I believe there was some discussion on this way back when, though I'd be hard pressed to tell you where. The end result of it was using vampires/werewolves as enemies in a sort of race-based PvP (think ). Unfortunately I don't remember much else. Anyway, I agree with you that if vampirism and/or lycanthropy are included, thay should be acquired through play, rather that at creation. But I'm not sure they should be included at all. They would introduce some serious balancing issues.

Want to know way to limit their numbers? Permadeth upon staking or being killed with a silver weapon (respectively). Add in valuable organs to be harvested and you've got yourself a pair of endangered species. :wink:


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emeraven
post Jul 19 2005, 06:02 PM
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Exo the applications for vampire slayer are next week :)

Yes I do remember those conversations, its an interesting idea, and yes with many ideas there are obsticals. I think at the time I wondered if becoming a vampire or a werewolf would be something a people would like.

Their might be advantages to looking at it like that, does anyone else have views or ideas about this.


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Bird
post Jul 20 2005, 01:59 AM
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it would be cool but you have to keep in mind that ALOT of people will go after this. that means you will have thousands of werewolfs and vampires running around in no time. so if this were to be implement I suggest you make it tough as hell to aquire.

ontop of that Vampires cannot stand daylight so i would think that could be a problem. they would only be able to hunt at night. but this could be solved with covering one up with clothing like robes which hide everythin of the body, if these cloths were not to be worn, the player will take a constant amount of damage every minute or something.

though i'd love to be a werewolf, they would make a great addition to the world. though since they only turn into a wolf when its full moon, you could even make it a bit rare to see a giant wolf like that running around and not just see one every time it gets dark. though i wonder how the handling of such a wolf could be done, will it walk on its back paws or will it run like a real wolf? i personally prefer the second, if this were to be added, a played would first of all need to take off his cloths quick enough before he changes to save it from being damaged. a wolf could only use his power claws and sharp teeth as weapon and would NOT be allowed in cities. also it could mean a thread towards other normal players so it would always be shown as an enemy target. this way it could be hunted a bit more ^^ a well, i could go on like this forever but lets just say i personally would love the idea to be a wolf


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Hankellin
post Jul 20 2005, 05:07 AM
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Full transformation to wolf..

Until a set number of game months/full moon cycles pass the player does NOT have control of the wolf form.(makes Lycanthropy a CURSE and not as disireable as a noobie)

These wolves would be very tough to kill without the use of silver weapons or fire. They should have a High Regeneration rate.

Were-wolves that survived long enough could also get the ability to control the change..

ie: stop mid-way through to get the stereo-typical bi-pedal were-wolf.

The cycles could be sped up if there just happen to be more than one moon.... :wink:

If there is more than one moon full at the time then the change is uncontrollable no matter what the player does or level.

Vampirism:

This one is a bit tougher... Limited to night hunting/shopping. Needs Human/elf/dwarf/whatever blood to sustain itself. Only able to feed off living beings or severly weakened.(Interview with a Vampire)

Standard light "difficulties".



To give players the "opt out" ability perhaps charms being sold by local gypsies or shrines? Single use limited. One bite and the charm disolves.


EDIT: Added the word NOT


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xardy
post Jul 20 2005, 09:25 AM
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Well i like the werewolf idea, but to become one it should be verry hard, there should be 1 or perhaps 2 werewolfs on the whole map changing position everytime, and if you meet them when its full and they bite you you become one to the next full moon (that is if you don't get killed bye the werewolf). Becaus the werewolfs will be constant changing position (in human oid and wolf form) it will be hard to become one and some1 that has met on can't just tell people there is one there. And to turn some1 else into a werewolf there should be a skill the player gets and he can only use a couple times during a full moon.

Dunno about vampires...
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Shaidar
post Jul 20 2005, 11:19 AM
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I don't think that I really like the idea of werewolves and vampires... I think there should be other ways to satisfy the hunger for these things. I know and love vampire lore and such but the thing I appreciate the most about them is their high society lifestyle and mysterious demenor. I think that if we gave that type of society feel to a race in the game like a dark elf race then the hunger for being a vampire would deminish. Also I think the only cool thing about a werewolf is that it can change forms... perhaps there could be another way for a player to beable to change? I just think that trying to add in these types of things would take away from too many other things in the game. Just my thoughts. :P


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Noctoos
post Jul 20 2005, 07:50 PM
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<peaks around quietly>

Umm hi,

I know you guys don't know me and all, but I have been keeping up with the website for awhile, didn't think to register till yesterday though. I was watchng this post and jsut had to add to it.

This is your world of course and things can be however you wished. But an idea to do is have these as Forms or Spirits, being activated via a piece of jewlery of some kind. This way it is open to all to obtain if they wish. This would also be a work around for any of the Folk Lore Restraints that might be incountered.

If one is possed by a spirit than the original body is still used. So if one was to be possed by the werewolf spirit, than they assume the form of a werewolf but not necessarily all the abilities. Same as for the vampire spirit, they might aquire great night vision, half the vampire strength, but would not be affected by the sun.

This would also allow for the ability to be a toggle power, having say a 10 second cast time, lasting 1 hour, than can not be used again for a certain period of time.

The quest to obtain this rare Jewel could be in the form of a Large Story Arc, taking the player all over the world. This would make it so only high levelers could obtain such a jewel. Of course the jewel would auto bind to the person that is doing the quest, so that it could not be transfer to another player. That would defeat the purpose of the hard quest, High leveler aquire jewel, give to lowbie type thing.

The End quest would be a fight between the player and a very hard "Boss" type. Sort of like, you want to becoem Dracula you have to kill Van Helsing.


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StaticGrazerr
post Jul 20 2005, 08:01 PM
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Aren't being vampires and werewolves considered a curse? If we were to implament these for characters wouldn't there have to be down sides?

All I'm saying, is that if we offer these things easily ( and yes, even through quests) that nearly everyone will become ( or at least try to) a vampire/werewolf. Wouldn't it be better to make an npc town or settlement where some of the people are werewolves?


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Hankellin
post Jul 20 2005, 08:04 PM
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The loss of character control while in full wolf form would be a major curse...


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exocrine
post Jul 20 2005, 08:24 PM
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Personally, I just don't see it. The player would either just sit back and watch, or not log on during an in-game full moon. How would that be a negative? Especially since you suggest that after a few months like that, the player would get a large bonus (kicking butt once a month), with no discernable drawbacks.

In my opinion, a proper "curse" should noticibly impact gameplay at all times, and should not just go away after a set amount of time. Otherwise players would just not play while the "curse" was in effect, or leave the character unused until the drawbacks had expired. In which case, no matter how severe a penalty you inflict, it won't have any effect.


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Noctoos
post Jul 20 2005, 09:00 PM
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Just an idea I had for the two forms.
The two forms would be controled by use of clicking on a jewel to activate the forms. Also the two forms, could have different levels of the curse, Level 1 being uncontroable, causing the player to have to complete quests to gain their next level of spirit, thus progressign the "story arc" Maybe a max of 5 levels of curse. THe 5th being that the player ahs gained complete control over the curse and has all avaible powers.

Skill Tree

Vampire Spirit
Pros:
�· Extra Resistance to Diseases and Poisons
�· HP regeneration rate is increase by 10%
�· Can cast a spell on NPC or other Players that allows you to look through their eyes. (1 minute limit)
�· Can cast mind control on other players (control breaks if you are attacked)
�· You can see auras during nighttime. (Shows up as a glow around living mobs/players)
�· +5% to Damage Spells that you cast, -20% to Healing Spells that you cast

Cons:
�· Death causes lose of Ability for double recharge time
�· Extra sensitive to ?holy/light? weapons and Spells
�· Magic Use is limited to ?Dark Magic? only
�· Auto hatred from all ?light? NPC?s
�· Auto hatred from all werewolves


Werewolf Spirit
Pros:
�· Extra Resistance to Diseases and Poisons
�· HP regeneration rate is increase by 10%
�· Can cast a spell on creatures that allows you to look through their eyes. (1 minute limit)
�· Can cast fear on weak minds.
�· Heightened vision in low light.
�· +5% to Healing Spells that you cast (Can not cast on self)

Cons:
�· Death causes lose of Ability for double recharge time
�· Extra sensitive to ?silver? weapons and Spells
�· Magic Use is limited to ?Dark Magic? only
�· Auto hatred from all ?light? NPC?s
�· Auto hatred from all vampires


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Noctoos �Žntuneric Spiridu�º, Fiic�£ de cu minunat regin�£
(Nocturnal Dark Elf, Daughter of the Great Queen)
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Bird
post Jul 21 2005, 02:50 AM
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nice idea's up here ^^

however on the loose controll effect of the wolf, i think exo is right, however howbout implementing it just a bit? :lol: would be funny as hell if your running arround with ur wolf char, but the wolf auto attacks everything that comes near him, he will run after other players, deers, hell, bunnies for all i care ^^ let him loose controll just a little bit. though i think you should be able to cancel the auto attacks after 5 to 10 seconds by just sending him else where :twisted: i know i would like to see that. that would also keep wolfs from entering cities where they are not wanted

welcome btw Noctoos ^^ you have got a nice concept of the jewelry up there, but also stated above somewhere is the fact that werewolfs and vampires are cursed people. so there should be a huge downside attached to it, thats what i think the biggest prob is with this whole idea of werewolfs and vampires, though i would like to see them both in

If we are gonna have these things in our game.... i vote for Vampire/Werewolf hunter class aswell ! hehe that would scare some people off, let them have great and really affective weapons against these species ! let them be more powerfull then those silly vampires and wolfs, and let them be able to find some really good loot once they have killed someone. forexample:
- Werewolf pelt
- Vampiric Teeth
- Werewolfs Tail
- Vampiric blood

with these items it would be possible to make the most powerfull potions and they sell verywell on the market ^^

this way ppl would think twice before being a wolf or vampire


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StaticGrazerr
post Jul 21 2005, 08:34 AM
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Indeed, now I'm onboard with the vampire/werewolf ideas.

I too want them implamented, but as a double edged sword. Truely a curse and a blessing. I'd also like to see a small number of Vampires, ) Just because I got my butt kicked, licked, sucked and fu..eh..nvm, the point is, vampires can seduce and stuff, and that generaly got my characters dead in White Wolf. *nod nod*


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Shaidar
post Jul 21 2005, 11:58 AM
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well one way to turn a lot of players off the idea... but not force them away from it... would be to not allow players to group while in a changed state. Werewolves and vampires would still be fun for solo PvP but also there could be a full group of 'hunters' and they could go out and start slaughtering all the solo vampires and werewolves. Could be an added twist... though I still think that we should just implement the society feel of the two groups and leave it at that. :P


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Rizen
post Jul 21 2005, 12:00 PM
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I certainly agree that there would have to be bonuses to counter the benefits, more than just having the curses being hard to gain.

For vampires, the most logical would be the weakness to sunlight and fire. For this purpose (and many others) I think it would be beneficial not to have ingame time of day correspond to real world. For one, it wouldnt work with people playing in many different areas, and two, a lot of people who play would be doing it in the evening and night, so they wouldnt be able to see daytime gaming as much.
Anyway, this makes it so that during every day a vampire would have certain drawbacks that wouldnt be as effectively avoided by just logging in at "night".

For werewolves, I dont think that someone should lose cotrol of the character when transformed. I think the main point of being a werewolf is so you can actually control the thing when it transforms. Becoming a werewolf wouldnt happen overly often, so i think there should be more fun involved in transforming.
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exocrine
post Jul 21 2005, 12:37 PM
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http://www.projectwish.com/viewtopic.php?t=416

I feel pretty safe in saying it won't.



I sitll say give them permadeath as well, make them think four times. I guess what I mean to say, is that the only way you can ever hope to keep populations in check is to make it more trouble than it's worth. That means, at the very least, no handy on/off switches. Something like this needs to be a commitment. If all it ends up being is a temporary stat boost for combat what's the point? What are you accomplishing that can't be duplicated by a strength (or other stat) potion.


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Bird
post Jul 21 2005, 12:49 PM
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Lol, i get your point Exo, but i think perma death would really ruin the game, however there should be more serious drawbacks i agree, let werewolfs and vampires lose a certain ammount of experience point or skill point when he or she dies

as far as the day/night thing with the vampires, this shouldnt be one of those drawbacks, exo gave me a good argument about that in the bright nights topic. when it will be day some players would just stop playing and wait for it to become night again, i dont think this is the way to solve it, i think it should be solved in another way and this is what i came up with:

When a vampire is in the range of direct sunlight it will take a constant amount of damage, however, when he is in the shadow of for example a tree, he would be safe again and able to regain HP. the lower level vampires will lose more serious amounts of health, though the higher your level, the more immune you get to sunlight, the less constant damage you take.

this way also not every noob would wanna become a vampire. this would be reserved for the higher class ppl

raise your hand if you like the idea :wink:


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exocrine
post Jul 21 2005, 01:20 PM
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I meant to imply permadeath for vamps/weres only, and even then, only for specific injuries. Silver weapons for werewolves, and staking/sunlight for vamps. Business as usual for everyone else.



A couple of things. Traditionally the undead do not heal naturally, but rather through some sort of magic. For vampires, this usually involves the drinking of blood. I suppose one way to handle that would be to have a vampire's mana refill only when drinking blood, and the vampire only heal through his own magic. Secondly, a vampire should never become "immune" to sunlight in whole or in part. Not only will powergamers grind until they become "The Daywalker" :roll: , but the more accessible you make this stuff to the average gamer, the sillier and more pointless it all gets.

Screw it, I've made up my mind. I don't think these things should be in the game. They can either be accessible or inaccessible. If they are inaccessible, it would be a waste of art/dev resources to flesh them out as very few people would ever play as one. If they are accessible, it all soon becomes a exercise in "gee ain't it cool" silliness, and is once again a waste of time.


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Bird
post Jul 21 2005, 01:26 PM
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i agree on the vamperic thing, but i think werewolfs can be implemented and limited easily as i stated in one of my previous posts

the player shouldnt have full controll over the beast, it should auto attack targets within its sight, since its not just same tame dog you can call off.

ontop of that i recall werewolf parts were used for potions to make men stronger (dont remember the exact thing, might aswell be fairy blood for all i know) but you get the point, this would make werewolfs pray of many hunters, eventually it would balance out.

also werewolfs arent socially gifted i think, they shouldnt be able to party up with other werewolfs, and also the communication should turn into jibberish :roll: this would stop raiding by werewolfs from happening since they would auto attack eachother when they get to close to one another.



perma death could scare off players, ppl could accidentally become a wolf at higher level and die without the knowlidge of perma death, this way the player would lose sooo much, he could deside not to bother to start again


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