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> Vampirism and Lycanthropy
exocrine
post Jul 21 2005, 02:20 PM
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I would hope that anything that impacted gameplay so seriously, permadeath or not, would be consentual. If anyone could just "accidentally" aquire lycanthropy, it seems like eventually everyone would have it.


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Noctoos
post Jul 21 2005, 04:32 PM
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Control of the Curse

This process I think would work for both curses, an idea instead of the Jewel idea.

After the player completes the ?story arc? quest to ?obtain? the curse, they are given a bar on their screen. (For the purpose of this write up I will refer to this bar as a Frenzy bar?)

After completing the quest, a frenzy bar shows up under the players other bars (i.e. HP, MP, etc.)

As the player goes about their normal hunting practices (i.e..Killing monsters, other players etc..) This bar slowly fills up. (it could be a % of xp earned per mob, or a set % per kill) I.E. a mob that gives 100 xp would give 1 point of frenzy bar, the frenzy bar would be a 100 point bar.

When the bar fills up, they transform into the form they had acquired from the quest (vampire/werewolf).

At this point the frenzy bar starts to reduce from full to empty at a much faster rate than it filled (i.e. double of triple the rate)

The first 1-minute of the change renders the player uncontrollable of their character, causing them to attack anything close by. This would be due to the effect the dramatic transformation has on the players mind. The sudden rush of new senses, ideas, physical pain of change etc? drives the player temporarily insane.

As the player levels up the ?curse? the time they are ?insane? decreases slightly. At no point would they ever gain full control of the ?curse?. They would always go insane at the beginning of transforming due to the great pain it initially causes.

The quest itself could have a specific level requirement to be able to start it. Because of the creatures involved no low leveler would even survive to fight the main boss. Also going this path would mean you are a darker person, their fore you could be hated by all ?light? people even when in normal form (A form of morale system)

As far as death, this ?curse? is something reserved for the high players that wish to maybe play the game in a different way that normal players. To cause there character to be completely dead (I.E. never playable again) would cause people to never go after this form, thus rendering its creation a waste of time and resources. Instead of perm death, have the person maybe lose the ability to transform altogether, either permanently or for a specific time frame. (I.E. time for the silver to leave their body and blood stream).


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Noctoos
post Jul 21 2005, 04:44 PM
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Also a way to limit the number of werewolves and vampires.

If you kill an alpha W/V all the ones they sired are returned to normal.
I.E. if John sired Jack, Jill and Bob, and you kill John, than Jack, Jill and Bob are returned to normal.

So for the stroy arc quest, the end boss would be the Alpha W/V, when you kill him/Her, you become a W/V.

The player of course would not be able to sire anyone.

This would limit the number of Werewolves or Vampires to just 1 of each.

Set the Boss to only spawn 1 time every week. So once a week, some else can become the new Werewolf or Vampire.

And if 1 is not enough, set it to where the "Boss" can only sire a set number at any given time.

More than one also brings aobut a good twist, werewolves from the same sire, hunt in packs. Nothing would be quit as fun as defending an entire town from 3 player controled werewolves. Or if they were not allowed to group, seeing two hugh werewolves battle it out for supremacy. Either would work fine I think, allowed to group with jsut each other, or no grouping allowed at all.


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Hankellin
post Oct 9 2006, 05:31 AM
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I know this is an old subject, but after hearing that the last full moon was a % larger than any prior ones I just could not help myself and think about this topic once again.


I still feel that Lycanthropy and Vampirism should be handled as a CURSE with heavy disadvantages to start.

Loss of Character control for X number of game months while in were form.

Needing fresh blood and sunlight restrictions for x number of game months.

Even getting the curses should be very difficult 1:1000 or more bites may transfer the curse. And then only from certain Boss monsters..


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Timmmy
post Oct 10 2006, 06:15 AM
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Wow I hope these and related curses make it into the game.Vampires and werewolves will a totally different side to the game and also could be very interesting in the storyline or at least adding a few quests.

At the moment I think it would be a good system to either have each race having its own kingdom or at least similar races sharing kingdoms.So you could have several species of humans(barbarians/civilised/ninjas(insert more appropriate names tongue.gif)),elves(high/wood/maybe fey) and orks(mountain/trolls/goblins).





Then the City of the Dead.This is how undead could be kept organised and limited.Firstly each undead city could have only one crypt(at a high level) with only a limited number of vampires,maybe around three(converted through a quest,perhaps having to beat one of the previous vampires).Note a vampire can be killed in their crypt but only by a living hand.Thus a vampire can be permakilled but only if living characters could fight their way through into the heart of an undead fortress city,defeat the powerful minions that guard the crypts while their masters sleep and then hammer the steak through their heart while they sleep.

As they are undead they can obviously not feed on their brethern and thus must travel far to 'living' lands to feed.Due to the nature of undead lands it is never truely day and thus the vampires can travel their own lands unhindered.However in living lands vampires must be VERY aware of the time.Sunlight is not simply something that burns over time or can be blocked with clothes.Sunlight should be instant kill with even powerful vampires having mere seconds to seek refuge.

A great thing about this idea is there will be a real tangible feel to differences in game time,not just for the vampires but for the players also who hunt them and are hunted by them.I'd bet as the sun starts to set player parties would start moving closer together seeking some comfort in others presence.

Note also a vampire must eat every night(that player is online,offline its assumed char does).If a player does not they will start taking both massive amounts of damage although never actually dying from it and losing their abilities(maybe a vampires abilities could reflect their 'blood').That is a starved vampire isn't going to be going around controlling peoples mind and lesser minions of evil.

Thus a vampires thirst is a real thing,if they dont feed it it will start to kill them and thus is a terrible curse.Add to this that vampires could reward players both in their valuable remains and the rewards offered by kings for their slaying and you could see why only a few would wish to play them.Also they can be permakilled and must avoid their food source during the day,striking during the few hours of darkness.They are very weak to fire/holy water,crosses etc.So why would you want to be a vampire(some thoughts)?

Vampires are immensely powerful,both in strength and resistances.No flowing blood means they are immune to poison and disease.They are the masters of mind control and thus are unaffected by all mind attacks.They are filled with dark magics which can call on powerful forces but also act to dispel or deflect most magics.They an rejuvenate much faster and also heal from their enemies(both by biting and also by drawing life from corpses).They can dominate certain NPCs(such as bandits etc).They can also call upon their kind(acting like lesser necromancers).As they can wield any weapon or armour(excluding blessed etc)there are VERY few on the battlefield who can stand up to them.They can curse players and confuse them and their pets.Their best ability could be to turn into a bat and travel very fast(flee combat,sunlight)allowing them to attack from behind were an enemy may not think of defending.





Werewolves are a much simpler species.They are pretty much just shapeshifters although restricted at that.Perhaps they should shun armour as they'd spend a lot of time splintering out of it and instead choose a barbarian style of gear,something like twohanded weapons and a few plates of armour that would be suitable for both their forms.

Werewolves could simply be very fast and powerful inspiring fear in players with low levels of mind control thus rendering them pretty much useless for a while.They could also have special attacks such as pin(jumping onto a char,pinning them to the ground and tearing at their defenseless body)and pounce(throwing char on the ground,stunning them).The talons could have a chance to disease a player.They should run on all fours and then fight on hind legs.

Silver weapons could cause extra damage.Werewolves can livein any kingdom and be of any race.Low level werewolves would change form every full moon and have to feed the whole time to evolve.That is a constant rage that would have to feed them or the change would be o much and they'd die and respawn as a normal char.However if a player managed to last through the changes they would become true werewolves with the ability to shapeshift when they want.Werewolves cannot own mounts as even in their human form the mounts can still sense the beast within.

Thus werewolves are quite powerful and eventually can control the change but they lose out on the ability to wear decent armour,ride mounts and even skill slower in areas that require concentration as their feral instincts override all.




Zombies,skeletons etc could be the typical character types of players who chose to go the undead route.These have similar skill routes to living beings just more towards their way of life.Also all other armies are against the undead(inluding the orks)and thus not many may chose to go the undead route.Thus it may be that only three vampires ever live on the entire map and those may do so under the constant threat of a light invasion and their extinction.
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Matlush
post Oct 10 2006, 07:40 AM
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Dark Eden (some kind of Asian free to play MMORPG) had something like that: If you were biten by a vampire, you were changing to one in 12 hours. And yeah, this stuff should be more like a curse, but not that much like for 1 month of no control in nights. But, on the other hand, we don't want to have huge amounts of warewolfs and such. Maybe.. hm.. something like halfing your skill when the change is full, but, on the other side... dunno, it might be too harsh.

So, in the end: Implementing such thing surely would bring fun, but if it would be anyhow unbalanced we would see it sooner or later, painfully or not.


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Bingo
post Oct 10 2006, 08:24 AM
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I think the idea of werewolves. I think vampires may be a bit unbalanced if it is fitted in "realistically" (I obviously use the term realistically here to imply agreed characterisitics of the vampire-concept). Werewolves, if implemented correctly, would be an excellent addition to the game. However, like anything, it's execution is paramount.

Werewolves don't have the drawback of daylight issues. However, come a full moon, they "turn". Additionally, a violent bloody act could also "turn" the man in to beast. Passing on the curse is as simple is incapacitating a victim (not killing), and the curse spreads. Like somebody else said, killing a werewolf releases all those down the "tree" which were sired as a cause of that werewolf. Should the number of werewolves in the game get out of hand, the slaying of a ancestral wolf should solve this issue.

History, Sci-Fi and Fantasy tells us that being a werewolf is a curse. Otherwise, the thought of getting bitten by one wouldn't be so bad. So whilst the player may gain some increases in clarity, smell, strength and agility, there would be (as another poster suggested) a constant thirst. One would have to eat every day, every night. None of that bread stuff either, meat. Rabbits, sheep and other small critters may do, but they won't satisfy the hunger as much as eating something larger (people... other wolves?). Should a wolf incapacitate (but not kill) another player, the curse is passed on (as described above). Should the wolf kill them they can then eat them, satisfying the hunger. A starving wolf would therefore prefer to kill and eat, rather than to sire.

The longer a player remains a wolf, the harder it should be to satisfy the hunger.


I do not agree that the "head" werewolf should be a result of a quest. If you had to kill that wolf, then immediately there would no longer be a curse (all werewolves are now back to normal), until somebody else does a quest... fails.. gets bitten... seems a bit unrealistic to me. A better approach (in my jaded opinion), would be to have a random spawn of the wolf... somewhere dark, somewhere dangerous, somewhere where n00bs don't go (as someone else said).. and a very low chance. The sort of place where the player(s) don't realise until it's too late...

People with high intellect and/or lycanthropy-lore should be able to identify other players who have the curse, even in their human-state (a skill ability).

Bounties could be placed on werewolves by towns. This would actively encourage the mass-hunting of werewolves. So the cursed-player may think "Cool, extra agility, extra strength and I turn in to a beast at a full moon etc...". However, How long are they going to last when a bunch of adventurers show up with a smart guy who can identify you and track you down (Silver-crossbow-bolts anyone?). Werewolves will quickly become outcasts... heck, may even hang out together (people may say they don't group, but traditionally wolves are pack-animals).


So what happens when a player is logged on and "turns"? Well, firstly I suppose a transmogrifcation animation. Cries of pain... that kind of thing. They become a beast. I think the beast should always be 100% controllable by the player, but the circumstances should force the player to feed. When in the beast-state, the player must continually feed ... the hunger bar is hardly ever satisfied. I think making the beast uncontrollable is a bad idea. The feeding-schedule alone should make a player adhere.

Other things to consider:

* The strength/agility of a werewolf should be a % above that of the player's normal character. A weak player will have a slightly stronger wolf... a tough warrior would have an even stronger wolf. The level of hunger that the player has to stem is dependent on the size/strength of the beast. A weak player might ALWAYS get away with eating rabbits and small-critters. A big strong player may have to have a grizzly-bear-diet.

* Wolves have an enhanced sense of smell. A cool overlay could be on a client screen with little whispy trails pointing off screen in a whispy line towards places where other characters/critters are (the smell). Different colours of trails could determine different classes of person/critter.

* Wolves are inherently "unholy" in history. Should "holy"-aligned players be able to be turned? Does a wolf have access to unholy-abilities even if their character is not normally aligned to that particular school?



I know it may seem above that werewolves might be a "cool thing to happen to my dude", but I'm pretty sure a rigourous feeding schedule would balance this out.

Just my 2c smile.gif
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Hankellin
post Oct 10 2006, 11:00 PM
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I really like Bingo's Idea of hunger driving the werewolf..

Just a question:

If a "good/lawful" character were to become infected and refused to feed the hunger would the starving wolf die?

Here would be my idea: if he refuses to feed then once the "Hunger bar" is filled he would loose health and if his health drops to zero then perhaps loss of char control until the wolf kills and feeds on the first available prey.. At this point any fresh kill would provide the regain of control. Rabbit, deer, cattle or other red meat.

If the player had taken percautions to prevent feeding, then on death maybe able to rezz with out the curse due to foresight and penance done by enduring the pain/rage of the beast's death?


One thing I do not agree with is the linage being broken kind of thing. I do feel that the players should have an "out" a blessing or charm available to cleans the beast from the PC?


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Maxwell
post Oct 19 2006, 11:15 AM
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I think an "out" would be nice but rare. What keeps the Werewolf PC from saying "Hey I am a werewolf shoot me with this and I will be better." Isn't that a cure as well? What will exactly happen to a werewolf when he dies?

If all of these questions in earlier post I am sorry, I just skimmed.

I do like Bingos Idea as well.


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Alter demise
post Oct 19 2006, 12:38 PM
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QUOTE(Maxwell @ Oct 19 2006, 11:15 AM)
I think an "out" would be nice but rare.  What keeps the Werewolf PC from saying "Hey I am a werewolf shoot me with this and I will be better."  Isn't that a cure as well?  What will exactly happen to a werewolf when he dies? 

If all of these questions in earlier post I am sorry, I just skimmed.

I do like Bingos Idea as well.
*




Great read so far, I will think of some stuff and post somthing later!


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KingNothing
post Oct 19 2006, 03:05 PM
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You got very good ideas. Heres mine:
If you become bitten by someone contaminated with vampirism/lycanthropy, you'll become one, even if the contaminated dies/you die. During the day if you are a vampire, you are your normal character, during the night however, you gain more power/skill than usual, while the curse being when you die (dieing during the night that is), you loose a percentage of all your skills related to how many people you drank blood from, perhaps you loose 1% less per person you contaminated, starting from 100% loss.

Same as above goes with werewolf, just that the character becomes a werewolf once every full moon instead of every night. There might be a full moon during the day, and you can work in partys of wolves where everyone gets 1% less loss for every victim.

You may also gain skills as a vampire (only as one) the more blood you drink.

So there might be plagues of vampirism and lycanthropy, and what will stop them is the death of the vampires and werewolves which will make them loose skills. It would also be very interesting if both were included, the vampire wanting to suck the blood of the werewolf and the werewolf wanting to bite the vampire, if you bite one of the other league you should be immediatly transform to that league with one percentage less left or what? tongue.gif
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Hankellin
post Nov 8 2006, 12:56 AM
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I was searching dragons and came across a wesite the dealt with many other topics as well. Here is an excerpt:
QUOTE
How does one become a werewolf?

Legend tells us that an individual may become a werewolf through several diverse means.  Foremost is that of being bitten by a werewolf (aptly demonstrated on the silver screen in The Werewolf of London - 1935 starring Henry Hull; and in The Wolf Man (1941) featuring Lon Chaney Jr as the infamous Lawrence Talbot).

Curses can also lead to the transformation - an idea that was intriguingly presented on the gothic TV series Dark Shadows with David Selby as the unwilling changeling Quentin Collins (one of my favourite shows of all time!).

Of course there are other circumstances that can lead to lycanthropy:  being conceived at the time of the full moon, sleeping outdoors on a Friday beneath a full moon, wearing a wolfskin belt or garment, being subjected to demonic possession, consuming the raw flesh of a rabid wolf -- just to name a few.

Is there any way of "curing" a werewolf?

According to popular lore, it is possible to "cure" a werewolf.  One way is to call him/her by his/her human name while in the animal state. Another requires the highly dangerous trick of extracting 3 drops of blood while in the wolf state. A third technique demands that the lycanthrope restrain him/herself from attacking humans for a full 9-years.

Of course, Hollywood has to get involved with new and inventive means of tackling this problem of a "cure".  In The Werewolf of London devouring a special flower that blooms only during moonlight prevented the dreaded transformation for one night only.  In Dark Shadows, consumption of a moon poppy while in the werewolf state would end the affliction forever. Another Dark Shadows lycanthrope, the malevolent Count Petofi (Thayer David) was cured by a gypsy spell, but only upon payment of his right hand, which he then spent the next 100 years searching for.



The Web site is here Werewolf History, Myth and Folklore


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GageEndal
post Nov 8 2006, 01:55 AM
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I am now and have always been against Vampires and Warewolves. Not for balance reasons or anything sane like that. I just don't like them.


Although they are an untapped setup in MMOGs. Only one game has them and they aren't that good. Heh


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vedomec
post Nov 19 2006, 12:39 PM
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i propose another, albeit similar, creatures,
human leeches

these are people, who attach themselves to you, sapping your strenght/money/will. more time they are with you, feebler you are. and they are stronger in strenght/money/will. try to imagine a man/woman that becomes your partner in the quest. at the first glance he/she is your companion. but you are getting worse every day...

just a thought
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Pandra
post Nov 19 2006, 08:26 PM
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QUOTE(vedomec @ Nov 19 2006, 01:39 PM)
i propose another, albeit similar, creatures,
human leeches

these are people, who attach themselves to you, sapping your strenght/money/will. more time they are with you, feebler you are. and they are stronger in strenght/money/will. try to imagine a man/woman that becomes your partner in the quest. at the first glance he/she is your companion. but you are getting worse every day...

just a thought
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..... I think I used to date a human leech. worste two weeks of my life >.<


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vedomec
post Nov 19 2006, 10:24 PM
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thats where i got the idea too :-((
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Void
post Nov 29 2006, 02:52 PM
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I agree with what Shaidar said. Though werewolves and vampires are cool, you could get rid of them by adding classes with similar features. A shapeshifter could get rid of the need for a werewolf, and another with special abilities at night would take care of a vampire.

If the classes were to be added, I think that they should only be temporary forms. It is a curse, but seeking a cure and losing control could get annoying. As soon as someone is bitten, a quest should go out, either for an NPC or a player, to go and "cure" that player of their condition. This would limit a players length of the curse. The infected player should be able to control where they go, but not whether or not they can attack. For example, if a player attacks him/her, he would automatically attack back, and would become NPC -like. If, after a certain amounter of time, no player takes the quest to cure the curse, an NPC hunter gets sent out to "cure" the player. The hunter should be able to be killed, but not easily. If a hunter is killed, an angry mob should go and kill the beast.

Thats my thoughts on the subject.


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goatboy
post Nov 30 2006, 04:43 AM
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If 'anyone' can catch vampirism or become a werewolf unintentionally, and if these effects have anything beyond short term consequences, I suspect that a lot of people are going to be Unhappy. Players should be able to choose whether or not they can be exposed to something so seriously character changing. For instance, if a certain area was well known to harbour werewolves and the player walked into the area on a full moon, stacked with silver-tipped weapons, it'd be fair to assume that the player is willing to risk becoming a werewolf in order to claim whatever loot / karmic reward is associated with the death of a werewolf.

As for causing the player to 'lose control' and become an NPC (even if only for an hour or so), complete loss of control can be extremely frustrating. Perhaps the inability to perform non violent actions, and a reward for 'playing the part', such as temporarily returning to your previous form if you eat enough innocent-meat, thereby allowing you to enter a town and seek a cure for your condition would be more appropriate?

This post has been edited by goatboy: Nov 30 2006, 04:43 AM
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Maxwell
post Nov 30 2006, 08:50 AM
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Very good Idea Goat, and an Offical welcome goes to you. I think playing the part, is a good Idea, but how could you reward them? I can't think of anything off the top of my head, but if I do I will post it.


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Void
post Nov 30 2006, 03:33 PM
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QUOTE(goatboy @ Nov 30 2006, 05:43 AM) *

Perhaps the inability to perform non violent actions, and a reward for 'playing the part', such as temporarily returning to your previous form if you eat enough innocent-meat, thereby allowing you to enter a town and seek a cure for your condition would be more appropriate?


When you say "inability to perform non violent actions", do you mean like crafting and anything but violence. If so, I think thats a terrific idea. It would definently give the feeling of being a werewolf. Good thinking!

Great Idea! Now involve an angry mob with torches and pickforks and i'll be happy. smile.gif


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