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> Idea for player races. (I want to see monsters.), Scratch the humans, cut the elves, burry the dwarfs!!!
echorev
post May 9 2007, 01:38 PM
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just like glib is saying, one race might be better at non-combat things, another race might be suited to just combat and not commercial skills, etc.


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Alexander
post May 9 2007, 03:17 PM
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QUOTE(glibdud @ May 9 2007, 09:33 PM) *

Balance doesn't mean uniformity. It doesn't mean every race/class has the capability to do everything as well as all the rest. It simply means that each one does what it specializes in to an approximately equal degree of effectiveness. It means that each one will have a usefulness, though it might not always been in one-on-one combat, or in combat at all. If one race is uniformly inferior to another, then sure someone who is skilled may be able to beat an unskilled player of the superior race. But why would that skilled player choose to gimp himself? If there's no reason not to choose the superior race, why wouldn't he?

Because that weaker race might look cooler graphically in his opinion and be a creature that, that player has always wanted to play in a game despite all its down sides? Because they care about the ROLEPLAYING part instead of the statistics??? Because they like those narrow chances at success because they enjoy a good challenge? Because they want to play a goblin that lays low a full adult dragon player? Because they like playing a underdog styled character and race? Because they want to do the impossible in the ultimate game?

People would even play it just for the sake of annoying other people with their disturbing presence if it’s an ugly and offending creature or perhaps to make people laugh if the race looks comical.

Fact stands that many people have many different likes and dislikes. To not add an option because you deem it unworthy because you suspect it won't be used is in my eyes an unworthy attitude if you're trying to build the ultimate game.

But I guess its all good, we have differant views on what is best and I'm used to having my idea's be put aside by people who have differant goals.
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glibdud
post May 9 2007, 03:41 PM
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QUOTE(Alexander @ May 9 2007, 05:17 PM) *

Because that weaker race might look cooler graphically in his opinion and be a creature that, that player has always wanted to play in a game despite all its down sides? Because they care about the ROLEPLAYING part instead of the statistics??? Because they like those narrow chances at success because they enjoy a good challenge? Because they want to play a goblin that lays low a full adult dragon player? Because they like playing a underdog styled character and race? Because they want to do the impossible in the ultimate game?


Heh. I think you have far too much faith in players to choose the different over the powerful. But as you said, we just have different views.
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Alexander
post May 9 2007, 03:56 PM
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Yeah, humanity is a race of weak intellect and willpower, we succumb to sins so easily and we can't stand a good challenge, we always take the easy way out instead of doing the right thing. God I hate my own kind.
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Jerky
post May 9 2007, 06:40 PM
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Alexander, you just aren't getting it. We have all tried to explain it to you, but you are missing the point. Your concept of "Balance" is wrong. At no time ever in an MMO has true balance ever meant all the characters were exactly the same, except for the look. I have no idea where you got that notion from, because no commercial MMO has even done that.

I think that is where all the confusion stems from. The concept of balance, as MNZ tried to explain, is that all the races are equally playable, and beneficial. It has nothing to do with their skill sets matching. That is an absurd notion. Like I said, since there are no previous games that have done this, I am not sure where you could have obtained such a notion. Moreover, I can't help but feel insulted that you would assume that we plan on making a game so shallow that your ideas are seen as the saviors.

Look at this situation from our perspective. Here comes this new community member. We made no claim to fame, or said nothing of how great we would be. As you have seen, information is not well organized. Did you ever stop to think that it is this way for a reason? Have we advertised ourselves on MMORPG.com or any MMO site? The answer is no. We are not looking to create undue hype until some of these things are resolved. Bringing hordes of newbies onto our site would only make things worse. Don't get me wrong, we like new members, but they need to realize what sort of task we are about.

We are NOT trying to compete with anyone. Especially not a commercial game (namely TOA). We are making our own game, based on the spirit of Wish. This does not mean we are even basing anything on Wish itself. So, to come to our site, and think you have us figured out in a matter of hours is insane. Moreover, to then insult us and put us down is rude. Your very first post here was rude, there is no other way to read it.

Now, allow me to come back to the topic at hand. I only strayed so that you could possibly see things from my perspective. Here is this community member, who has no credentials, who comes in acting rude, and now makes claims for our game that have no basis whatsoever. On top of that, he makes arguments about proven game design principles that could never be backed up with anything of merit. All you have is opinion.

How will we remedy this situation? The only remedy that I can see is that you read everything found here:
http://www.projectwish.com/index.php?autoc...DE=02&cat=1

Only after that will I begin to reply to your posts again. It is a waste of my time to spend it here, when I could be working on the game.


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Alexander
post May 10 2007, 06:47 PM
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What is going on here is that we have different concepts of balance, simple, my concept of game balance is perfect fairness and equality, yours simple enough isn’t. And no matter how much we argue about it the conflict will only settle until one of us gives up or gives in. Personally I don't know any game either that has such perfect balance either, its something I believe and have come to on my own. People always think and try to difficult while solutions are always simple. The world is a very simple place if you want it to be so.

So Jerky, I don't see any confusion at all; if you're confused then perhaps you shut re-evaluate your own situation and think twice again before coming to the same conclusion of self confusion.

Opinions Jerky, I got nothing but opinions and if my writing offends you then it’s all in your head for I have no use for it offence, if you “take offence” as its called then I where to be the one to guess that my words bring you doubt but doubt is only as strong as you are weak of mind or unsure of your own opinion. I’ve got a strong attitude and people will find themselves hard pressed if they want to chance my viewpoints and opinions. But don't be scared, I don't bite, and even if I would all you'd have to do is say one word and I'll be off this forum in an instant, I'm not somebody who holds any power here if you can grasp what I mean.

As for competition. I know, I've read the FAQ, I know it’s not a competition or race but consider what you attempt to do with this game. You are mostly interested in two things, creating the ultimate MMO and getting a steady occupation of 10.000+ players in your game. People on the web have only a limited amount of time to spent in their day and this time goes to what they like best, so if they like another game better then what you make you lost a player, better still, you never got that one in the first place. Whether you like it or not each game stands alone on a battlefield that will sway the interest of the web's population. But I say that if you got a goal to make a specific game you shouldn’t look at what other people think of it and build it the way you want it to be, damn the consequences, be true to yourself and don't sell your soul! I know that PW isn't competing with anyone out in the open otherwise you people would have made that painfully obvious in the FAQ or some other section of information on the project.

I think I understand what sort of task you are on about Jerky but also understand that I can't give a rats ass about that. All the same I wish you good luck with your project because its gonna be one hell of a job. I know I'm rude... So? I'm also dead honest... Live with it or ask me to leave. I'm not insensitive to other peoples feelings and even care about them if they voice them. Knowing what to do about those feelings is a different matter though.

Everybody has an opinion Jerky and some people voice them a bit stronger and unbowed then others. All you have in your post is your opinion of me. Just know one thing Jerky, unlike you I don't claim to know anything, instead I know that I know nothing about anything or anyone, all I have to show for myself is my opinion which is based on nothing but my experience of life. If that isn’t good enough for you then I can't help you.

Your post is not a waste of time as long as you enjoyed typing it or as long as it relieved some of the frustration brooding in your mind. Remember that anger, frustration and depression are the best motivators for creativity.

Good luck and take it easy.
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Jerky
post May 10 2007, 11:07 PM
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First of all, don't flatter yourself. You would have to know me to know that in a debate, I never let emotion into it. To think that I was venting or releasing frustration is awfully presumptuous.

About balance, yours is not a concept. It has nothing to back it up, and that is my point. My point was backed up and repeated by multiple people in this thread. You cannot make up a new definition for something just because it fits what you are trying to say. Find some evidence to back up your side of the argument.

Now, about my qualifications. They are not a whole lot more than anyone else's other than I am a student of MMO's. I study. Who do you think compiled that list of links that I recommended you read? That is a fraction of the research and study I have had on the subject, and I was trying to help you become educated. A discussion which takes place between learned individuals has a tendency to bear more fruit than one with individuals who don't know as much on a subject. My recommendation to read those links obviously hasn't been followed.

Now, quit trying to make yourself a martyr. You are trying to get me to ban you, just so you can go around saying how you got banned. Lets put a stop to that line of thinking right now. For all the reading you have done on this forum, have you read the sticky here? I doubt it. Let me quote it for you:
QUOTE
For all posters in this forum, it should be pointed out that ideas herein will be considered when the time comes.

We, as a project, love and need ideas here, but these will be used when we get to the point in development when we are designing the gameplay, etc. As such, the ideas forum will be more of a repository and archive for such ideas, so they can be found and used when that time comes.

This also means being respectful of other opinions and points of view. If you disagree, engage in a structured discussion. There is no one here whose opinion is worth more than someone else's. If all else fails, start a poll to see what everyone else thinks.

We thank you for your ideas and hope you keep them coming. The more the better!

So, admitting you are rude, and using profanity on the forum is explicity against the rules. I have never had to warn anyone in the past, so consider yourself the privileged first. If I have to moderate your posts, I will, but I will not ban you as long as it is clear that you are trying to contribute.

Now, my problem with your post(s), and the reason for me recommending the reading, is because you have nothing to back up your ideas. You seem to think that is enough to keep them valid. That is not the case. I could use at least 2 credible sources for every one of my points, and that is why my side holds more merit. Does that mean the discussion is over? No. The second part of the problem is your tone. You sound as if you are teaching us all a great lesson. This is simply absurd. That is why I asked for your qualifications. Once you can prove that your opinion should be listened to as if you are the teacher (read Pro), then we will all listen. Until then, you are the learner (read equal with everyone else on this forum). As an equal, I expect your tone to match. That means no more demeaning others' ideas, or making comments like "boy, you guys just seem to be missing the mark here, let me enlighten you," which you have used in more than one other thread. It has to end.

Does this mean you have to leave? No. It is your choice. If you really want to help and refine ideas, help. But do not continue on as you have, or your warning level will continue to rise.

Finally, about wasting time. Its not the discussion that is a waste. I never even implied that. Its the moderation. Having to instruct someone to read a sticky containing rules of conduct on this forum is a waste of time. Especially considering you should have already read them. Me having to explain to you why I have to warn you is a waste of time. Lets be clear that those two issues are seperate. Discussion/debate = good use of time. Rudeness/breaking rules = waste of time.


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Alexander
post May 11 2007, 04:34 AM
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Yup, you just don't get it Jerky.

You shut really take it easy some times. It’s obvious you miss the point and don't understand the situation.

Take care.
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Minthos
post May 11 2007, 09:12 AM
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QUOTE(Alexander @ May 11 2007, 12:34 PM) *

Yup, you just don't get it Jerky.

You shut really take it easy some times. It's obvious you miss the point and don't understand the situation.

Take care.
No, it's you who don't understand the situation, Alexander.

Your tone and your unfounded arrogance is getting to people and making you increasingly unpopular in this community. You should listen carefully to what Jerky has to say. You recieved a warm welcome when you got here, now the air is chilling considerably and you can only blame yourself, for your behaviour is the cause of it.
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Alexander
post May 11 2007, 05:35 PM
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Ah great the conversation hasn't died yet, good, I love it!

Never was I aware that this was a popularity contest, thanks for making that clear to me you <censored> <censored> <censored> <censored> <censored> <censored> !! Now that is some decently rude language just so your earlier claim at it didn't go unfounded Jerky, you know, just helping you out there. Thought I don't think that particular peace of help is appreciated, but, oh well.

And where is that arrogance talk coming from? I'm a simple guy with simple opinions and that's it. I'm not acting high and mighty and telling people how much I've read and learned in any particular field. Nope all I have are my simple and honest opinions. But as usual people can't stand honesty, beats me why but oh well, I can't chance or want to chance you or anyone else which is something you and Jerky seem to expect of me. Because somehow I can't help but notice that I'm only supposed to play by your rules, your guidelines, to act how you want me to act. Sadly for the both of you I don't work that way, you may have noticed that by now.

I am also under no obligation to listen to anyone! I'm not on your paycheck, you don't own my soul (if we even have those things), your not even a real part of my life untill I choice to include you into it.

Yes, I must admit that I was welcomed nicely and friendly which leaves me to wonder why it was that things didn't continue along that road. I don't think I've chanced since then have I? I'm still the same person as I was then aren’t I? Clearly I'm not the one who has chanced his behaviour during my time here.

But you don't have to answer that for my sake, I'm perfectly comfortable living my life in my ignorant ways will most likely continue to do so till that time comes. I think that it is perhaps in everybody’s best interest that this conversation ends because I don't know but if anything like this is allowed to continue it just can't be healthy for anybody, you know, seeing as neither side is learning anything.
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Jerky
post May 11 2007, 06:01 PM
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Thats your final warning. I will not warn you again. Your account is suspended for 1 day. Take that time to think. If you continue one, you will not be welcomed back.

Thanks.


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Windragon
post Sep 4 2008, 08:27 AM
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But... we don't start talking about the mean of new races and knowed races from well knowed fantasy worlds based on D&D?

LOL

To stay in topic, I think that is not necessary forgot knowed fantasy mobs but might be better use them as base inspiration for evolved ones.
Tolkien made a brand new fantasy world merging all his knowledge of European mythology with his fantasy.

Create hundred and hundred new mobs is not so simple for the most creative peoples too smile.gif

However I'll add in the real thread some Ideas to help a bit smile.gif

Peace
Windragon


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RicoSuave
post Oct 15 2008, 01:48 PM
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I was thinking about some type of doppleganger creature that could choose to appear as any other (relatively same-sized) creature. I doubt we want the doppleganger to adjust their base abilities upon shapeshifting. I know I wouldn't want everything I was used to doing to adjust on me just because my character changed outer appearances.

Anyway, didn't know if we already mentioned that one or not... and I'm far too lazy today to check.
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Windragon
post Oct 27 2008, 04:18 AM
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I propose the simple idea to introduce hybrid races an example may be an "half draw" or an "half abyss demon" hybrid races may have some particular ability as may be a bit more base strength or mana points due his race or why not more magic or physical resistance.
Things really simple to define code side but that can give more personalisation to characters.
When we open the hybrid door many kind of new races come in mind and most of them are no property of anyone smile.gif
Let me know what did you think about this idea.

Windragon


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