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> Player Built Cities, A new twist on an old topic.
GageEndal
post Sep 21 2006, 10:36 PM
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I just got to thinking, games claim to have player built cities all the time, but the cities are either not built by the players, or are far past useless.


My idea is that each city zone will have a city administrator (who will work for the game). Their job will be to build structures in the city up to a certain degree. They can pass out structure permits and say how many vector squares the player can use, then the player can go in and build the structure they want to build. They can add shops to them and all that other fun stuff that we do with our own little buildings. If the structure is a private residence then it would cost a bit more since it's taking up space.


Now the idea behind this is that the players will be able to build their own cities, but the administrators will still be the ones who pass out the permits. Players can recieve permits by messaging the admins. They can do the whole thing without ever seeing the admins even. The reason for that is because of time zones, but that's just a helpful perk. You can also do the whole thing in person, naturaly, as the administrator will be a very strong player in the city.


Now for the fun parts. Since these cities are going to grow, the players can have city wars or competitions. Jousting tournements and the like will be fun also (we should add jousting to the game btw). Get it so that the players aren't just hording their town and ignoring the others. We can make it so that the towns interact and try to get their populations up.


Moving towns would be as easy as going up to an NPC and asking for citizenship. That way the players will decide how things work. Naturaly we would have a starting city that would have the highest population, but the outer cities that are run by the players would be where the real players would be defined. They may even grow larger than the starting city.






Alright enough ranting for me.


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"I am suddenly more and more glad that I am a big stupid warrior."
- Daniel Nicolai - 2006-10-18

"but other times I want to don a feathered cap and go prancing down the byways in pretty purple tights"
- Daniel Nicolai - 2006-09-20
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joshpurple
post Sep 21 2006, 11:12 PM
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Yup! I like the idea.

Here's my little idea *draws smiley face in sand*

Yes, well.. that was fun... O.k., my idea;

Depending on your race, and then skills adding to it, each player would get 'x' amount of space to 'Edit Terrain' ( that could be 'Nest,' or 'build lair,' or 'Dig cave,' 'build house,' etc.). 'x' amount of 'Edit Terrain' might be time based? The more time you put into your farming skill, the more land you would be able to farm? Only terrain that the race could 'live' on would be editable by that player.

Players then have the choice, 'Do we want to build next to each other?' No Admins needed. If players 'group' then they would receive advantages, examples: 'x' amount of NPC would arrive to help, maybe a 'safe zone' of 'x' amount of size, etc. And, they would take on certain responsibilities; Food for NPC's, Protection (how many NPCs getting killed = bad thing = mobs, revolts, etc.), building of roads, etc.

To build a castle you would need many players to get together and 'group' or add their 'x' amount of 'Edit Terrain' space ( ie; 'X' amount of terrain editable = 10' castle wall / per week, +racial and skill bonus) maybe?


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Pandra
post Sep 22 2006, 03:47 PM
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The only game with player built town's that I've had exprience with so far has been Horizions, and their system was just awful from what I could tell. They dropped city sections out in the middle of nowhere that were no close to any sort of resource. Who builds a town where there are no resources? Istarians apprently.

And the crafting system itself was nuts. I'd cut down a tree for 100+ lumbar, take that 100+ lumbar, turn it into 50 something boards (You could nothing with raw materials unless you did something that effectively cut the orginal number in half. They called it material processing, I called it a useless extra step, and it one that didn't make sense) then from these 50 something boards I might have enough material to fashion one pillar, trussle, post, what ever. I figured up the production rate one time. Three trees died for every one fence post on my property.

You know in life, I'd just go cut down on tree and have like 5 or 6 rough fense posts made from it. I'm using the lumbar thing as an example becuase my family ownes a saw mill. I don't knwo everything about the lumber industery, but I'm familiar with it and the way HZ went about it made no sense at all. But I was talking to someone who's family was in the sheep and wool business and apprently that part of the rendering was way off wack too.

Anyway, to get to the point. I'm not sure how player cities work, but if they're in game it would be nice for them to be located close to resources and for the resource crafting to make sense. I think most cities have had city planners so that part makes sense to me. You don't really want someone dropping a house in the middle of the market square, and you don't wan't a factory going up in the residential sector either. Or the town dump next to the town park. I think a city planner would keep stuff like that from happening.


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Minthos
post Sep 22 2006, 05:57 PM
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Yep, I agree. We should stick to the way things are done in real life whenever we can - as in your fence post example and on the city planning issue. In real life the local authorities would approve an area for various stuff - industry, residental, trade - and people who want to build will have to own the property on which they build, file an application with schematics, get approval from neighbors and adhere to all sorts of rules about size and location of the building.

We wouldn't have to make it quite as intricate, but the part about filing an application that must be approved by a local authority makes a lot of sense to me, as it could provide us with an effective tool with which to control the layout of towns and settlements.
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joshpurple
post Sep 22 2006, 06:48 PM
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Good points, on having building needing approval.

BUT, would it be worth it to allow players to build without getting approval and then find out in-game why it was a bad idea?

Example: a dumb goblin decides to dig a tunnel in town. So he just starts digging. Soon, when seen, a guard or even an NPC might go over and;

arrest the gobby
collapse the tunnel on the gobby
fill in the tunnel while the gobby is in it (or away)
Kill the goblin, send dogs in after him
Even the gobby tunnel might cause a collapse, etc.

This gives the players the choice of doing the 'wrong' things, and learning the hard way.

And, it even leaves building open to being used as an attack? Sapping walls, tunneling secretly into a vault, etc.

BUT, I agree with what you guys have said, -just posing the questions smile.gif .


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GageEndal
post Sep 22 2006, 08:05 PM
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Joshpurple said:
would it be worth it to allow players to build without getting approval and then find out in-game why it was a bad idea?



Yes, yes it would. Why should we allow for THAT much human error when we can keep the world simple. After all, a person is smart, but people are stupid irrational animals.


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"I am suddenly more and more glad that I am a big stupid warrior."
- Daniel Nicolai - 2006-10-18

"but other times I want to don a feathered cap and go prancing down the byways in pretty purple tights"
- Daniel Nicolai - 2006-09-20
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Pandra
post Sep 22 2006, 08:08 PM
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Cool as that would be, I'm rather afraid that would open up a route for griefers to well... annoy and grief an entire city not just one player at a time. Realistically the longer, larger and less supported a tunnel is the more likely it is to collapse. While to siege purposes, or purposes of Gassy goblin having 'express' tunnels for visiting, the ability to undermine something would be great.

But let's say L337 h4x0r decides he wants to annoy people, because to him, ruining other people's accomplishments is fun. So he start's undermining streets, houses, ect. In real life you can tell when mining is going on. How would you be able to tell mining was going on in game though? I don't think you could fessably make the ground tremble.

Admittedly, undermining a whole town would take awhile. But if no one can tell what's happening beneath their feet Mister h4x0r has all the time he wants to tunnle until something collapses and by that time it'll probably be much to late.

Let's also say the majority of town players want to errect a monument or statue. They all pool resources and work to get it built. One player who has a knot in theit pants decides for whatever reason he or she doesn't want the statue built. He or she undermines the area and statue disappears. All your community support and good will and junk probably go toppling along with said statue.

I have no clue how difficult even programing in terrain manipulation like that would be. It might be able to be toggled on and off for certain areas, but I imagain that it would be a nightmare to program so that x, b and q areas are toggled off for tunneling while m, z and r areas are toggled on for tunneling.


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joshpurple
post Sep 22 2006, 08:15 PM
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Indeed! Griefers... I always forget about the griefers.

Maybe the difficulty in errors would be more than reflected in just the process of, as a player, trying to get it done? Such as... if your skill level is low in building, it might collapse?

Well said Gage smile.gif !


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Pandra
post Sep 22 2006, 08:39 PM
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Damn it Josh. Now I can't stop thinking about how awesome it would be to run a couple of tunnels under an enemy settlement and then divert a river through the tunnels. Civilizations never lets you do anything cool like that.


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Kain:: I liberated myself a copy of MS Office 2007 today.
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Kain:: >.>;
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joshpurple
post Sep 22 2006, 08:45 PM
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It might be cool to have monsters posses this ability? A giant Ant Lion type, a creature that could tunnel & hunt players from below? >muhahahahha!<

I like the idea of the 'Mole Men' , popping up from the ground and pulling you down in.
Man... I would DIG a cool underground! biggrin.gif


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Pandra
post Sep 22 2006, 09:06 PM
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A warren city would be cool. But you're probably get accused of ripping off the under-dark or under-mountain or something.

*baps Josh for the bad pun*


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Kain:: I liberated myself a copy of MS Office 2007 today.
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joshpurple
post Sep 22 2006, 09:15 PM
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biggrin.gif lol!


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Jerky
post Sep 24 2006, 11:45 PM
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Ok, this is a mandatory read:
http://forums.projectwish.com/index.php?showtopic=4253

Its easier for me to contribute to the ideas when you know what I am thinking. That thread was a great start to this idea.

Get reading people smile.gif.


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