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> Sonic the Hedgehog, climate killer?
Mole
post Mar 7 2008, 06:33 PM
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Sonic the Hedgehog, climate killer?
by Simon Sturdee

HANOVER, Germany (AFP) - "I don't care, we're all going to die anyway," says 17-year-old Christian, to laughs from his friends as they play video games at the CeBIT IT fair in Germany.

What he does not care about is the environmental impact of the games console he and his mates are playing in a giant exhibition hall crammed full of other teenagers playing the latest shoot-em-ups, driving games and the like.

Whereas many of the 5,500 exhibitors at CeBIT in Hanover, Germany like IBM and Deutsche Telekom have been at pains to trumpet their green credentials, in Hall 22 there is not a tree-hugger in sight.

Microsoft chief executive Steve Ballmer travelled to the fair to tell people what the world's largest software company was doing its bit for the environment -- but the company's Xbox games console was not mentioned once in this context.

Indeed a Microsoft Xbox spokesman in Hanover conceded he had never been asked about the environmental impact of the 18 million Xbox 360s sold so far, preferring instead to forward AFP's questions to headquarters.

Worldwide computer use requires 14 power stations for the necessary electricity, producing more harmful carbon dioxide emissions than the entire airline industry -- not including the emissions created and manufacturing and shipping around the products in the first place.

And games consoles -- of which 62 million were sold in last year -- are the gas guzzlers of this industry, using huge amounts of energy to generate the necessary mindblowing graphics and sounds.

When played online, they are linked up to huge server farms which use even more energy.

And with each generation of console -- we are currently on the seventh -- repeatedly made obsolete by the newest technology, millions of machines, games and other accessories are thrown away, destined often for the developing world.

This has not escaped the notice of Greenpeace, which was taking part in CeBIT for the first time, vowing to sort the "greenwash" from the genuine amid all the talk of green IT.

The environmental pressure group issued results of a survey comparing the green credentials of 37 products from 14 major brands, showing modest improvements regarding hazardous substances, energy efficiency and recyclability.

But Nintendo provided no data for the investigation on its Wii console, Micosoft said they had no information, and Sony's details on the PlayStation were "very late and very insufficient," Greenpeace campaigner Zeina Al-Hajj said.

Greenpeace suspects this speaks volumes.

"The industry has not looked at all at the environmental impact of the games console. The amount of energy they consume, especially the XBox and the PlayStation, is massive. There is no evidence that they are acting," Al-Hajj said.

Greenpeace concedes that some improvements have been made, particularly by Nintendo with its Wii in terms of energy consumption and recyclability, but it says much more needs to be done.

"If you can do it in a Wii, why not with a Sony?" Al-Hajj says.

And a spokesman for IBM, which supplies powerful microchips for the Xbox, the Wii and the PlayStation, while keen to talk about the firm's efforts to be greener in its other businesses, does not want to talk about games consoles.

"You would have to ask them," meaning the games consoles makers, IBM spokesman Joerg Winkelmann says. He adds however that processess for making the chips have improved.

Microsoft headquarters did not reply. Nor did AMD, whose processors are also found in many consoles.

Gamers in CeBIT Hall 22 meanwhile carried on playing.

"This doesn't stop me gaming at all. The fun factor is very high and you think first about the fun factor of the games," says Sebastian, a 22-year-old soldier and gaming fanatic.

"Most people who play games don't really think at all of the environment, they think about the fun factor," he says.

Seventeen-year-old Geld from the Netherlands shrugs as the sound of music in the windowless hall pumps louder and louder.

"A washing machine uses more energy than a computer," he says, turning to get on with his game, fingers working madly on the buttons.

CeBIT runs to Sunday.


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Cobra
post Mar 9 2008, 02:17 PM
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Global Warming is a myth.


period.


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Brotoi
post Mar 9 2008, 07:19 PM
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QUOTE(Cobra @ Mar 10 2008, 05:17 AM) *

Global Warming is a myth.
period.


Oh, I dunno. The evidence in favor of Global Warming seems pretty convincing to me. Whether or not (and to what degree) human activity is causing the phenomenon, on the other hand, is certainly a bit dodgy on both sides of the debate.
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Jaramar
post Mar 10 2008, 12:27 AM
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QUOTE(Brotoi @ Mar 9 2008, 05:19 PM) *

Oh, I dunno. The evidence in favor of Global Warming seems pretty convincing to me. Whether or not (and to what degree) human activity is causing the phenomenon, on the other hand, is certainly a bit dodgy on both sides of the debate.


It is. There's a natural cycle and there's the human bit. Don't beleive the full claims of either side.

Anyways, we still have a 50-50 shot on slipping back into the ice age. It ain't over yet.


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Minthos
post Mar 10 2008, 01:06 PM
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QUOTE(Jaramar @ Mar 10 2008, 07:27 AM) *

It is. There's a natural cycle and there's the human bit. Don't beleive the full claims of either side.

Anyways, we still have a 50-50 shot on slipping back into the ice age. It ain't over yet.

I, for one, would welcome our new Mammoth overlords.
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Brotoi
post Mar 11 2008, 07:09 AM
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QUOTE(Minthos @ Mar 11 2008, 04:06 AM) *

I, for one, would welcome our new Mammoth overlords.


Mammoths? huh.gif


Maybe. My money's on the Bonobos. biggrin.gif
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Mole
post Mar 11 2008, 02:45 PM
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It would be sweet irony if our new overlords were a mutated hedgehog and a portly plumber with a fetish for squashing things with a large hammer.

Yes, I know I just combined characters from two different gaming systems.....



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effigydrums
post Mar 11 2008, 03:30 PM
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There certainly are no discernible effects of global warming in Milwaukee right now. We've had one of the coldest, snowiest winters on record. There's still 3 inches of solid ice on many sidewalks.


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RicoSuave
post Mar 14 2008, 09:28 AM
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QUOTE(effigydrums @ Mar 11 2008, 03:30 PM) *
... We've had one of the coldest, snowiest winters on record.
This last winter it snowed in Baghdad. The winter before that, San Antonio had an ice storm so bad it shut the city down for three days (Yes, there are some situations when mail does not arrive). Minnesota just recorded (1½ months ago) its coldest day EVER (-68 degrees, or some such).

As was stated earlier, three questions need to be asked:
1) Is Global-warming really occuring (not localized-warming, which of course exists)?
2) What effect does man play in all of it (do we even affect it)?
3) Do we have the ability to do anything worthwhile about it?

Apparently, the Weather Channel is thinking about suing Algore over all this to "settle" the debate:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,337710,00.html
I wish them luck.

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Minthos
post Mar 14 2008, 08:06 PM
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1: Of course global warming is occurring. Yes it seems we're getting more extreme weather, not just extreme heat and more hurricanes, but extreme cold and more blizzards. It may be because of global warming or it may be because of something else entirely.

2: From there to thinking we're to blame is quite a leap of the imagination.

3: There's nothing we can do about it, we just gotta brace for impact.

Still, there is one thing we can do something about. We are turning this planet into a toxic hellhole, and that really needs to stop.
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greendots
post Mar 16 2008, 05:33 PM
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I agree with minthos. Lukily technology is bringing up "green" ways to conserve fuels (coal, fossil, and nuclear) in recent years. I doubt that it would have happened with out so many proponents of the global warming theory.

I saw some thing on the discovery channel on printable solar cells that would be cheap and efficient for roofing material by the year 2010 (i think was the year). With that it should also be able to supply power to developing countries. Its really interesting seeing how the internet has come to places like that. Skipping land lines directly into using wireless. I think the same will happen with electricity.
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RicoSuave
post Mar 17 2008, 10:34 AM
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I, also, (mostly) agree with Minthos -- especially his last point in which he states our need to stop turning Earth into a toxic hellhole. Breathing all this crap is really nasty. Nothing is worse, imo about breathable air, than taking a full breath while running/jogging of a seriously out-of-tune diesel's exhaust... well, maybe a facefull of cigar smoke.

(sorry to all the smokers I just offended)
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Honis
post Mar 18 2008, 08:34 AM
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personally my breathing improves when I live in cities over the country side so yay pollution, no room in the air for pollen aand other natural crap.

Aren't the server farms (game servers) the ones that EVERYBODY worries about when it comes to energy consumption? I'd think most companies running those servers take energy costs VERY seriously (since its proportional to $). can anybody do me a favor and check the outlet specs of the consoles they own? Amps watts etc. peak values are fine too.

Also, Greenpeace would have a heartattack if they knew how many Universities ran old computers 24/7.


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Mole
post Mar 18 2008, 02:36 PM
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QUOTE(Honis @ Mar 18 2008, 07:34 AM) *

Aren't the server farms (game servers) the ones that EVERYBODY worries about when it comes to energy consumption? I'd think most companies running those servers take energy costs VERY seriously (since its proportional to $). can anybody do me a favor and check the outlet specs of the consoles they own? Amps watts etc. peak values are fine too.


True, most companies are definitely not doing their part to help the environment when they start up large server farms. However, there are a lot of good initiatives out there that are trying to make a difference and, once they get adopted more by then general consumer, will really start paying dividends.

Google, and a large number of other companies are all working to design a new power supply for computers that is more than 95% efficient. The power supply you have in your computer today is less than 50% efficient. It looses a lot of energy as heat, does not convert power efficiently, and is expensive to build. The new power supply designed by Google engineers is highly efficient, looses little heat, and is actually cheaper to build since it uses less components. This new power supply is very important to Google, since they use standard desktop-style PCs in their farms.

Intel and AMD are both starting to develop energy efficient chips, which will help to build computers that use less power and achieve the same speeds.

Solid state drives will consume less power, and will eventually replace today's hard drives. The largest solid state drives are only up to 160G, and their performance is very sluggish (compared to hard drives) but the technology is getting better. My guess is that by 2010 we will have solid state drives that are at least comparable to today's hard drive technology.

The help to the environment does not stop there either. Many companies that manufacture computer hardware are recycling various "wastes" that happen in the fabrication process. Water is collected and recycled, various chemicals are recycled, etc. This all lessens the impact on the environment. There are even some companies that are recycling old computer hardware, which gets them out of landfills.

These are just the things that are on the top of my head. I know there are others. While the "computer industry" in general is still a strain on the environment, steps are being made to make things better.

Somewhere there is a list of the "greenest" companies. I wonder who is all on that list....

-Mole



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Minthos
post Mar 19 2008, 02:41 AM
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QUOTE(Mole @ Mar 18 2008, 09:36 PM) *
The power supply you have in your computer today is less than 50% efficient.

Nowadays the typical efficiency is around 75% to 80%.

QUOTE
their performance is very sluggish (compared to hard drives) but the technology is getting better. My guess is that by 2010 we will have solid state drives that are at least comparable to today's hard drive technology.

Already random access times for SSDs are orders of maginude faster than for HDDs, and max sustained transfer rates are comparable with all but the fastest HDDs.
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Mole
post Mar 19 2008, 03:12 PM
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QUOTE

Nowadays the typical efficiency is around 75% to 80%.


Then they are getting better, but (IMO) still not good enough. 95% efficiency is a good goal, with a stretch goal of something even higher.

This is kind of like laptop batteries. Compared to what they were a few years ago, laptop batteries are great, but they need to be better. I should be able to work all day long, wireless, and my laptop battery should easily last. The absolute minimum battery time should be 8-9 hours.

QUOTE

Already random access times for SSDs are orders of maginude faster than for HDDs, and max sustained transfer rates are comparable with all but the fastest HDDs.


All we need is for costs to come down and sizes to go up so that these become more of a standard. These will be cheaper (in terms of power) to run and operate.



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RicoSuave
post Mar 19 2008, 03:23 PM
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My PSU sits at 80% efficient idle and about 60% under load, I believe. I'll search for the specs and repost.
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effigydrums
post Mar 21 2008, 07:17 AM
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To reinforce my previous post... it's snowing like crazy right now, on March 21st, the first day of spring. I am supposed to have a job interview this afternoon and I'm thinking it will be snowed out. Global warming sounds AWESOME right now.


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