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Skill System |
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Jaramar |
Sep 14 2006, 09:34 AM
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PW Story Team
Group: PW Developer
Posts: 165
Joined: 11-January 05
Member No.: 137
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Just thought I'd put up a list of possible skills here that I'd worked on over the summer, the crafting skills are no where near complete though. I'll be putting in more little comments as I work on this today. Coloration: Skill CatagoryVisibleVisible and has optional "Ability Sets".HiddenAbility Sets, Spells, and Crafting RecipesMelee Skills: - Damage Types:-- Piercing (Small bonus to chance to hit and damage while using Piercing style weapons in melee combat regardless of actual damage type.) -- Slashing (Small bonus to chance to hit and damage while using Slashing style weapons in melee combat regardless of actual damage type.) -- Bludgeoning (Small bonus to chance to hit and damage while using Bludgeoning style weapons in melee combat regardless of actual damage type.) - Styles: (All styles give additional chance to hit as well.) -- One Handed (Moderate bonus to dodge and casting speed as well as a small bonus to melee damage while using a single One Handed weapon.) -- Two Handed (Moderate bonus to melee damage while using a Two Handed weapon.) -- Dual Wield (Small bonus to melee damage, dodge, and parry while using two One Handed weapons.) -- Weapon and Shield (Moderate bonus to shield usage and a small bonus to melee damage while using a One Handed weapon and Shield.) - Weapons: (All weapon skills get chance to hit and damage bonuses while raising in addition to anything mentioned specifically.) -- Axes-- Daggers (Small bonus to dodge, casting speed, and parry.) -- Hammers-- Maces (Flail skill available after extensive use of the Maces skill.) -- Short Pole Weapons (Hunting Spears fall into this catagory while in melee combat and in the Javalin catagory for ranged combat.) -- Swords-- Unarmed (Gives a large bonus to dodge and casting speed but may only parry Bludgeoning and Piercing weapons and will still take half damage.) (Full sized polearms are only for usage against mounted opponents!) Ranged Skills: - Accuracy (Increased chance to hit and a small bonus to ranged damage due to extensive use of different Ranged weapons.) - Weapons: (All weapon skills get chance to hit and damage bonuses while raising in addition to anything mentioned specifically.) -- Bows-- Crossbows (Repeating Crossbow skill available after extensive use of the Crossbow skill.) -- Javelins (Hunting Spears fall into this catagory while in ranged combat and in the Short Pole Weapons catagory for melee combat.) -- Thrown WeaponsDefence: - Dodging (Takes penalties dependant on weight and type of the armor.) - Parrying (Takes penalties dependant on weight and type of the weapon.) - Shields (Usable with one handed melee and ranged weapons.) - Armor:-- Chainmail (Gives a slight bonus to defence while wearing Chainmail. Chainmail armor causes a moderate speed decrease and dodging penalty. Slow casting speed.) -- Leather (Gives a slight bonus to defence while wearing Leather. Leather armor causes a small speed decrease and dodging penalty. Moderate casting speed.) -- Platemail (Gives a slight bonus to defence while wearing Platemail. Platemail armor causes a large speed decrease and dodging penalty. EXTREMELY slow casting speed and unable to cast War Spells.) -- Unarmored (Gives a slight bonus to defence while not wearing armor. Not wearing armor causes no penalties. Fast casting speed.) Magic: - Enchantments (Supposedly due to some lore requirement but really for balance and variety each character can either choose Enchantments which are self buffs or Healing which is for healing, ressurection, and status effect removal. Enchantment skill also gives a bonus to War spells while Healing gives a bonus to Summoning spells.) - Healing (Supposedly due to some lore requirement but really for balance and variety each character can either choose Enchantments which are self buffs or Healing which is for healing, ressurection, and status effect removal. Enchantment skill also gives a bonus to War spells while Healing gives a bonus to Summoning spells.) - Summoning: (While a summoned creature or creatures are active you may not engage in melee or ranged combat. This could supposedly be due to needing to keep ones mind in the "casting" mentality but is also to make sure that we don't have everyone and thier grandmother with summoned pets.) --Creatures --Elementals --Undead --Drains (Not summoning spells exactly but more appropriate to this school then to being a War Spell.) - War Spells:--Acid --Bludgeoning --Fire --Ice --Lighting --Piercing --Slashing Crafting: - Hunting-- Butchering (Every 25 points in Skinning gives a +1 skill point bonus but only if the corpse has been skinned.) --- Butcher Creature-- Skinning (Shearing skill available after extensive use of the Skinning skill.) --- Skin Creature--- Shear Creature- Metalworking-- Mining--- Dig--- Extract Gems--- Extract Ore--- Extract Stone-- Smelting--- Smelt Ore-- Blacksmithing--- Create Arrowheads--- Create Crafting Knife--- Create Framework--- Create Hammer--- Create Nails--- Create Needles--- Create Pick--- Create Pot--- Create Saw--- Create Smith's Hammer--- Create Wood Axe- Woodworking-- Wood Harvesting--- Harvest Wood-- Carpentry--- Create Beam--- Create Board--- Create Pole--- Create Shingles- Alchemy (Every 10 points in Cooking gives a +1 skill point bonus.) -- Brew Alchemical Oil-- Brew Alchemical Poison-- Brew Cloth Dye-- Brew Leather Dye-- Brew Metal Paint-- Brew Paint-- Brew Potion-- Create Alchemical Item- Armorsmithing-- Create Buckler-- Create Small Round Shield-- Create Medium Kite Shield-- Create Medium Round Shield-- Create Large Kite Shield-- Create Tower Shield-- Create Chainmail Armor-- Create Splintmail Armor-- Create Platemail Armor-- Create Metal Boots-- Paint Armor- Construction (Every 10 points in Carpentry gives a +1 skill point bonus to wooden constructions, while every 10 points in Mining gives a +1 skill point bonus to stone constuctions. If a construction has both wood and stone you only get a +1 for every 15 points in Carpentry and Mining combined.) - Cooking (Every 15 points in Skinning and Butchering combined gives a +1 skill point bonus.) - Enchanting (Every 10 levels in Enchantment gives a +1 skill point bonus.) - Fletching- Leatherworking-- Tan Leather-- Create Leather Armor-- Create Studded Leather Armor-- Create Leather Boots-- Create Leather Shoes-- Dye Leather-- Waterproof Leather- Tailoring-- Spin Thread-- Dye Clothing-- Weave Cloak-- Weave Dress-- Weave Pants-- Weave Robe-- Weave Shirt-- Weave Cloth Shoes- Weaponsmithing(This is a VERY basic example of the craft system which is still a work in progress. For example right now quarrying is lumped in with mining. This should change.) Random Notes and Thoughts: Armor Penalties and Crafting ideas - http://forums.projectwish.com/index.php?showtopic=5376Armor types equals more quick access slots which are the only ones available in battle? Poison? Minthos's idea with skill respec points after max?
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-Jaramar Hillslayer Insane Gnome
"'Live and let live' is my philosophy these days," I remarked. Random chuckled. "What a quaint notion. I'll bet it will last all of five minutes." -Nine Princes in Amber
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Replies(20 - 39)
glibdud |
Mar 31 2007, 03:28 PM
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Seasoned User
Group: Members
Posts: 52
Joined: 30-March 07
Member No.: 998
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Well I'll throw my ideas for a general skills system in here, and copy it over if an official thread is made. Skills Hierarchy I think one way to make skills more dynamic and realistic is to arrange them hierarchically into a sort of tree arrangement. The roots of the trees would consist of what would traditionally be called "stats" or "attributes". From those, very general classes of skills can split off. From those, slightly more specific skills can be split off. And so on. Here's a simple example of one branch of the skills tree: - Body
- Upper Body Strength
- Blacksmithing
- Armorcrafting
- Weaponcrafting
- Swordsmanship
- Lower Body Strength
Now, imagine that you craft a sword. Doing so would "exercise" your Weaponcrafting skill, increasing your experience in it. But then it also exercises your Blacksmithing skill, providing a smaller increase to that. In this way, the experience trickles all the way down to the root of the tree, providing a smaller bonus for each level it traverses. When skill checks are made, the same sort of process is followed. The next time you make a sword, its quality is affected by your skill. That skill will consist of your actual Weaponcrafting skill, as well as, to a smaller extent, your general Blacksmithing skill, Upper Body Strength, and Body (each level having progressively less influence). What such a system does, then, is tie skills together in a realistic way. That sword you crafted provided you with valuable knowledge about crafting more swords. But you also learned more about metalworking in general, which will also help in smithing other items. It also worked your upper body, providing you with a little more oomph the next time you swing a sword. Where it can get real complex is when skills apply to more than one branch. The system can deal with this just fine, but it makes the tree into more of a mesh that isn't as easy to read. But then again, the game design for which I wrote this system was aimed at hiding most of the mechanics from the players. If you can make it intuitive enough, there's no reason the players need to see the tree at all. I imagine the biggest roadblock for this system would be on the technical side. Every skill check requires a number of calculations to be done on the server, which could potentially turn into quite a load. But I don't have enough experience in such matters to really be able to tell how bad it would be. This post has been edited by glibdud: Mar 31 2007, 03:51 PM
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Exudos |
Mar 31 2007, 10:55 PM
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Familiar Face
Group: Members
Posts: 32
Joined: 19-March 07
Member No.: 979
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I'd like to throw my two cents here, appropriate or not . Anyway, I think that the ability to shape the games towns and cities would be nice. An ingame little building design toolkit could create a demand for a new kind of crafter, one who actually uses real life skills to design houses and buildings, at a cost with resource costs as well of course. This would be realistic, much like in real life. If you did this, the game could also start out with just a bunch of tribes wandering around for good spots to make cities. Some would flourish, some would become guilds, some might become little religious outposts, some could become military bases... This building customization would pretty much open up the ultimate in roleplaying customization. Your character could have a job assigned to him by other players, be in the army, have an established trade buisness... This would also open things up for pirates, just really make the game completely customizable. SecondLife did much the same thing, and it developed into a rich and diverse place. Because every builder has their own flourish, it could create some of the most spectacular buildings any game has seen, even "caves" that are actually player made fortresses! (my personal fantasy right there, a guild of assassins living in a fortress cave ) Characters should also start out and gain levels based on what they do, not by classes. I much agree with Glibdud on the skill tree issue as well, it is very much in the way an MMO should be, although extensive with formulas. I have some, or alot, of experience with C++, and it should be doable however. I'm a bit rusty, otherwise I would sign up as a programmer , but that's away from the point. In conclusion, I think that player made buildings would make for a developing culture and unique and diverse cities. It would influence the game mechanics, create wars, just make for a bloody fun game. I'm not saying it should be easy to make a house or city, but it should be fun.
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glibdud |
Apr 3 2007, 01:04 PM
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Seasoned User
Group: Members
Posts: 52
Joined: 30-March 07
Member No.: 998
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My previous post was moved from another thread before I saw this one, so it may not appear to fit the context. A few more comments on what I've read here:
I'm in favor of hiding as much as possible of the numbers behind the scene from the players. I disagree with the sentiment that "It's going to get figured out anyway, so why bother hiding it." For a simplistic system (e.g. WoW), that may be true. But a more complex and realistic system could be designed such that the players never really know exactly what's happening behind the scenes. They'll figure out the tendencies, sure, but there'll always be enough doubt in the system that people will be motivated to try to find a better way.
The argument that "People like to see discrete improvements" is valid, but I'm of the opinion that in a well-designed system, you'll be able to take that away without most of the players even noticing. That relies a lot on keeping the players interested in the actual content.
I'm also opposed to an artificial skill cap. I think skill decay can take care of making sure players can't master everything at once.
And since I'm feeling contrary today, I'll go ahead and disagree with one more thing. I really don't like the idea of letting characters change their skill build on a whim. Characters should have a real identity, and if I meet Bob the Legendary Warrior today, it would really be silly to see him hurling fireballs but unable to lift a sword tomorrow. If you want players to be able to switch identities, let them make multiple characters.
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glibdud |
Apr 3 2007, 03:47 PM
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Seasoned User
Group: Members
Posts: 52
Joined: 30-March 07
Member No.: 998
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QUOTE(Dwilf @ Apr 3 2007, 03:51 PM) I'm in favor of skill decay but would prefer to see time limited lifespans for charcacters and a permadeath system so we don't need skill decay or a cap. I know this will be unpopular with some/many gamers but I stick to my view that a dynamic game world (RP heavy or not) needs a dynamic character population and this requires PCs to die and not come back at some point.
I should probably spend more time thinking about permadeath systems and deciding if I could come to live with one. I've always been against it. The biggest problem I see is that if life expectancy is too short, it'll be difficult to get into a character. But if it's too long, players will feel like they're losing something they worked hard to achieve. On the other hand, it does make skill limits a much simpler subject. And it would probably reduce the desire to grind, since people lose the "I'll put in the work now so I that I never have to do it again" mentality. (Although... I suppose it could be said to encourage grinding, in the mindset that you don't have time to wait around and let your skills slowly build up. That's an interesting one.) Plus it's just a while different dynamic, which PW seems to be all about. To be clear, are you suggesting combat permadeath, or just old age? Perhaps a half-way system where a character doesn't actually die, but simply retires? He's no longer any good for combat or spellcasting, but can still hang around at least for socializing (and maybe introduce some sort of teaching/training system).
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Maxwell |
Apr 4 2007, 11:09 AM
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Master
Group: Members
Posts: 250
Joined: 11-October 05
From: Salisbury, Md
Member No.: 560
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Nice setup, so why couldn't we just have a death system with heirs. I am not saying you need to have an NPC family and when you die one of you kids take over, but its more or less like you start off a lower level than your "father," but now your not starting at zero. It's the same basic concept as dwilfs, its just with a story twist.
This post has been edited by Maxwell: Apr 4 2007, 11:10 AM
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Programming is a complex blend of art, science, logic, engineering, design, and craftsmanship -Steve Yegge
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glibdud |
Apr 4 2007, 01:08 PM
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Seasoned User
Group: Members
Posts: 52
Joined: 30-March 07
Member No.: 998
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QUOTE(Maxwell @ Apr 4 2007, 01:09 PM) Nice setup, so why couldn't we just have a death system with heirs. I am not saying you need to have an NPC family and when you die one of you kids take over, but its more or less like you start off a lower level than your "father," but now your not starting at zero. It's the same basic concept as dwilfs, its just with a story twist.
Yeah, I was thinking along those lines too. I think there's a MUD that does that... full-time PvP with permadeath, with some/all of a dead character's money/possessions passing to his next character as an heir. I dunno, I'm still a bit skeptical. I'm all for severe death penalties, but I'm not quite sure I can go that severe. For one thing, I envision an environment where explorers are always in danger of being stalked and gutted by a hungry tiger. Be kinda harsh for their whole career to be over in a flash like that. Also, let's not forget that the internet isn't perfect. Can you imagine how much it would suck if your internet connection dropped in the middle of a battle, leaving your character defenseless? (And how much it would be exploited if we allowed the character to immediately disappear?)
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Exudos |
Apr 5 2007, 07:38 PM
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Familiar Face
Group: Members
Posts: 32
Joined: 19-March 07
Member No.: 979
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Ahhh, I see how it could work, the perma death. You only get one character at a time, who shares a soul with their decendants, as in, you die, you make a new character, you start out a little stronger, wiser, with memories of your past lives to guide you along, maybe you gain experience faster depending on the levels of your past lives, who knows. You could pray at alters to certain gods to extend your life, and could use them to gain more power from your past lives. Just an idea.
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Bent Coin |
May 15 2007, 05:28 AM
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Newbie
Group: Members
Posts: 2
Joined: 15-May 07
Member No.: 1,066
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Hi all. I recently joined the forums, and enjoyed your discussions. I found the discussion on perma death very interesting. As an old school MMORPG player I know that would scare me away from your game. Players work hard to build their characters, and perma death seems like a huge waste of effort even with other characters inheriting some some skills , valuables etc. As a player I would want to have a say in such a major decision. Now I can see a character dieing permanently lets say in a GM run event if the player consents to it prior, and say you work out some type of a deal, maybe a memorial, shrine etc to that player. Another way would be to run events with great rewards, but also great penalties. Let the players know that this is a perma death event, that way the players have an option to participate or not. I can assure you there will be participants if the rewards are worth the risk. Just my opinion.
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Maxwell |
May 15 2007, 10:04 AM
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Master
Group: Members
Posts: 250
Joined: 11-October 05
From: Salisbury, Md
Member No.: 560
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I like that Idea, but what is something a player is going to risk their life for? Maybe a legacy. I don't know, personally I hated perma-death, but now it has kind of grown on me. I see more people being a tad bit more careful, instead of fighting and knowing you will come back, you will do everything in your power to stay alive. I would be interesting to see who would stand there ground and who would run.
I personally don't think that it would be fair to lose all of your skill and possessions, but I believe it will be enough that you would be worried about being killed. If you think about it's very much like non perma-death you will die but you come back as another character and you will have lost some skill and some possessions, as I think about it the line between perma-death and respawning at a bind stone, is very faded.
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Programming is a complex blend of art, science, logic, engineering, design, and craftsmanship -Steve Yegge
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Honis |
May 15 2007, 12:02 PM
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Veteran
Group: PW Developer
Posts: 156
Joined: 27-July 05
From: Southern IL
Member No.: 539
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back to the subject of player skill degrigation. Why not have a skill called "Fatty" (working name). The longer you idle (in and out of game) the higher this skill becomes. It basically works agaist any skill that requires activity (sword fighting, arrow shooting, spell casting, etc.) The higher the skill the slower and weaker you become. The skill points can be worked off when your active (running, figting, etc). I suggest this because most people will not like seeing a hard earned set of skills disappear. A draw back I see is that it can be exploited rather easily. If the game has auto-run then someone can point the charater in some direction hit the run button and go take a nap (if they aren' afraid of dieing) (the boot method can also be used if auto-run gets disabled somehow). Perma-death would scare most people away from doing this, but I'm not an advicator for the p-word If certain things aren't designed into the game, they could just keep running into a corner. If people are afraid of dieing and there is an auto-fallow, a new job may be made, Personal Trainer. This is an exploit because people can auto fallow someone and that someone does laps around the city while everyone fallowing who has a fallowing character is off doing something else. I don't know how the exploits can get skirted, but I'd really hate to see my actual skill points degrigate just because I can't log in everyday.
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Original skin by: b6gm6n | Conversion by: Chris Y
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