Meeting Log 1/15/2005 Options

[Mikhail]

* Mikhail_ changes topic to 'Meeting In Progress, Moderated. PM Questions to Ops and Stay on Topic! Thanks. Latest News: http://www.projectwish.com/news.php || Help to define our goals: http://www.projectwish.com/viewtopic.php?t=173 || Next Meeting: January 15, 2005 @ 18:00 GMT'
* Mikhail_ sets mode: +i
<+Maddeva> Greetings
<@Mikhail_> and salutations
<Mole> ok, let's get this party started
* Mole sets mode: +m
<Mole> first order of business
<Mole> the current title of our project is project wish
<Mole> it was asked if we keep this working title or find a new one
<Mole> thoughts?
<Kalldrexx> Is this title of the game or just project title?
<Strangerr> I suggest we stay with the title for now untill he get the game to at least pre-alpha stade
<silmaril> I think it is a good title to keep during the first phases. When more is decided about goals, design, general feel and features a final name can be found
<Mole> project title. unless people think we can successfully determine a name for our unknown game
<Strangerr> stage*
<Mikhail_> I think we should keep this as the title for the project, because it is an essential anchor to our founding goals and mission and does is not copyright infrengement. For the game we let the community submit titles and have a contest
<Maddeva> I suggest keeping the name projectwish and choosing a name for the game at a much later date
<pearle> Yeah, it's a bit premature to decide the title.
<Mole> triss also says to keep the title
* Mole sets mode: -i
<Mikhail_> <Azgaroth> keep title, it is our trademark =)
<Mikhail_> i think we should keep title
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* Mikhail_ sets mode: +o Mortideus
<silmaril> at least for now. at a later date, I think something else should be decided
* Mikhail_ sets mode: +o silmaril
<silmaril> but not at this stage
* Mole sets mode: +v Zackron
<Zackron> as long as the objectives and general spirit of the game remains similar to that of WISH, tne I feel project wish would be an appropriate name to work under as it provides identity toward what the group is seeking to accomplish. If on the other hand, the goals start to drift too far from that of WISH, a different name might be more appropriate.
<Strangerr> we can make a name contest when we get the game to at least alpha stage when it is supposed to go public
<Kalldrexx> my idea is to keep it
<pearle> Good point, Zackron
<Mole> all good point for keeping our current project title as is.
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<Mole> are there any point to be made for changing it?
<silmaril> suggest to keep it for now then
<pearle> at this stage, no. later on it should be reevaluated
<Mole> ok.
<Mikhail_> lets say 6 months?
<Mikhail_> to revisit this
<Zackron> unless any legal issues come up between now and then, that sounds good
<Mikhail_> agreed
<Kalldrexx> good point Zackron
<pearle> it might be better to reevaluate after certain goals are met vs. a strict time limit
<Kalldrexx> we dont' have ot put a date on it to revisit
<Mole> we keep the title "project wish" as our project title and we use it for the working title as our game until we actually have something to show for our efforts
<Maddeva> should be no legal issues if the name is projectwish
<silmaril> I agree with pearle. better with, say, before first testing release
<Strangerr> we wont get any leggal issues untill we make the game public so we are safe
<Mole> k. we'll reevaluate things once we have our first testing release
<Mole> moving on
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<Mole> item #2
<Mole> project leader positions
<Mole> this is the current list that we've come up with:
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* Mikhail_ sets mode: +v skywisenight
<Mole> Programmer
<Mole> Server Developer
<Mole> Client Developer
<Mole> Artist
<Mole> Story Writer
<Mole> World Builder/Designer
<Mole> Modelers
<Mole> Sound Designer
<Mole> FAQ Maintainer
<Mole> Community Spokesman
<Mole> Webmaster
<Mole> (put the word "lead" in front of all those)
<pearle> the lead programmer would be the lead of the client and server leads?
<Mole> are we missing any important positions?
<pearle> leaders, rather
<Kalldrexx> question
<Kalldrexx> what pearle asked
<Mole> i was thinking of making 3 positions
<Mole> the "lead programmer" can also be the build guy
<Mole> think of him as the person who puts everything together and compiles it all
<dezwo> Would it be reasonable to have a seperate quality management team?
<pearle> good point, dezwo
<Mole> good point
<silmaril> I suggest programming, visual effects, sound and community as overall groups
<pearle> i would think yes
<silmaril> and yes, qa might be one as well
<pearle> if not now we would need such a team at some point
<skywisenight> is the list in the forums upto date?
<Mole> how about we call a testing team the "QA team"?
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<dezwo> Mole, sounds right.
<Mikhail_> no sky, last fiew entries didnt make it on there
<Strangerr> sounds good
* Mole sets mode: +v Jerky
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<Mole> Jerky suggests a scripting lead. jerky, can you tell us what you mean by that?
<skywisenight> I'm making a page on the wiki for contacts, positions, roles (etc)
* Mole sets mode: +v Triss
<Jerky> Well, programmers will be getting things to work, wouldnt scripters (once we can script) be in charge of setting up the skills
<pearle> that depends on the design of our engine backend
<Triss> what about lead animator? not all the modelers are taking care about model animations shouldn't someone be taking care about this part?
<silmaril> jerky: I think providing the tools is part of the programming tems, while doing the scripting is part of the design group
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<Mikhail_> Triss, but wouldnt those people be under 1 person
<Mikhail_> as far as a lead
<skywisenight> animators should be seperate from modellers.
<silmaril> to ensure consistent graphical design, isn't it better to have all graphics teams under the same lead?
<Jerky> i agree sil
<Mole> sounds like we need an lead animator then
<skywisenight> and there should be a distiction between character/monster people and the rest of the stuff.
<pearle> sil, that sounds like a art director though
<silmaril> pearle: that would be a name for it, yes :)
<Kalldrexx> hrm ok
<Kalldrexx> sounds good skywisenight
<Kalldrexx> mind if I comment on this
<Kalldrexx> I agree with silmaril,
<skywisenight> go crazy
<Kalldrexx> skywisenight, why do you say that?
<Triss> well maybe you are right about the one person leading both modelers and animators but it's a lot of work, i'm not sure if one person can take care about both?
<pearle> it depends on how many modellers/animators we have
<pearle> it might be ok to start with one lead at first then scale up to more subleads if it is required
<Strangerr> I agree with Triss
<skywisenight> I don't know. blah! Too many windows.
<Mikhail_> i agree with pearle
<pearle> it's best to not be top heavy right from the start, imo
<Kalldrexx> I kind of agree, we already have a lot of categories (though I don't know how many people we have)
<Mole> what if we have one person heading up the "art department" and have that department include all of the designers, animators, artists, etc
<dezwo> That sounds good.
<Triss> pearle is right, one person at the begining should be ok, it should be discussed again when we will have any models to discuss
<Mortideus> That sounds good at the moment, until we find out exactly how manyt people we have
<dezwo> I think we could do the same for development in the beginning.
<Strangerr> sounds good to me
<skywisenight> http://projectwish.com/wiki/wikka.php?wakk...kka=ContactList
<Mole> then there would still be a lead animator, artist, etc. but they would all report to the "head artist" or whatever
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<Mikhail_> ok, so we got head now being ahead of lead?
<Kalldrexx> Mole, that sounds like a good idea
<Mole> no, still a "lead"
<Mikhail_> k
<Mole> just used wrond word
<Mole> wrong
<Mole> and skywisenight's list in the wiki is pretty complete
<Mikhail_> can we get a link
<Mole> look up.
<Strangerr> http://projectwish.com/wiki/wikka.php?wakk...kka=ContactList
<Mole> do we want to call our "art department lead" anything else? or is that a good title?
<pearle> Art director?
<dezwo> Art Director sounded pretty okay.
<skywisenight> now the list needs to be populated.
<Mole> art director then
* Mole sets mode: +v Mouglue
<Mole> anything else? any other positions needed?
<dezwo> Couldn't we apply the same principle to development?
<silmaril> I agree with dezwo
<dezwo> That is, appointing only a lead developer first?
<pearle> as do I
<Mikhail_> same
<Mole> this is actually a perfect segue into topic #3
<Mole> :)
<Maddeva> agreed, later on as development progresses for sub divisions may be made
<Maddeva> *some
<Mole> it was brought up that once the position leaders are chosen, the leaders have the control to pick who they want for their team
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<Mole> any objections to doing things that way?
<pearle> as long as it is discussed with the rest of the current team, sure
<Mikhail_> 1. we pick heads based on talent groups, ie artist, programmer, webmonkey.... 2. they then work within their dep and decide where to place the apps
<Mole> this way the team leaders have some power over their team
<Mikhail_> no opbjections :-D
<skywisenight> No. My question is: What is going to be the process of determining position leaders?
<Strangerr> no objections here
<Maddeva> im all for that
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<Mole> oh
<Mikhail_> skywise, we fight it out
<Mole> i'm thinking that the process should be whoever is most skilled in their area, they are our team leaders
<pearle> wel, mole is the project lead I think
<pearle> oh ok
<skywisenight> it's a minesweeper showdown!
<Jerky> oh good! I have a chance
<silmaril> 1 on 1 minesweeper. glove come off!
<Mole> (before i forget, someone add "QA/Testing" to the wiki)
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<Mouglue> 1 min 34 seconds on advanced. :-)
<Mole> let's stay slightly more on topic. :)
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<Strangerr> I think the team should decide who they think would be the best for their lead
<skywisenight> done
* Mikhail_ sets mode: +v Lucky_Luciano
<Lucky_Luciano> Good evening!
<Lucky_Luciano> Sorry i'm late...
<Strangerr> evening
<dezwo> With the team lead deciding about the team, that will be difficult, Strangerr.
<Mole> any objections to having the most skilled person be the team lead?
<Mole> or we could have a selection committee.
<dezwo> Well, as long as the most skilled person also has the time and dedication, no objections.
<pearle> yep
<silmaril> Mole: a good plan, but who decides who are the most skilled?
<pearle> i assume skilled includes management experience
<Jerky> time and dedication matters for a lead in this project I think
<Mikhail_> i think we should be the selection committee and pick people right now based on skill and dedication so far to the project..ie involvement
<Mole> whoever the team lead is would have to accept the position, if offered
<Strangerr> what silmaril said how do you want to decide the most skilled one ?
<Kalldrexx> lol
<Kalldrexx> Mole, will do
<Kalldrexx> jeez skywisenight your fast :P
<Mole> everyone had to apply for a postition.
<Kalldrexx> Mole, how are you going to determine who is the most skilled?
<Maddeva> that would be hard to do as not everyone knows the experience people have
<Mikhail_> we cant
<Mikhail_> leads dont have to be the most skilled either
<Mole> they should have provided some references (or examples)
<silmaril> I think Mikhail_'s idea is good. Then we can shchedule a team leader election in say, two months where each team can change leader if wanted
<skywisenight> The leads need to be the best at, well, leading.. organizational skills, good people skills, knowledge of the process, but not necessarily best at implimenting it.
<Mikhail_> Being a good leader does not mean you have to be best at anything, you just have to know how to get the team to work together
<Strangerr> agreed with skywisenight
<Mole> good point, skywisenight
<Mikhail_> i quit typing after i saw what sky said
<Lucky_Luciano> agree Sky
<dezwo> Changing the team leader without *critical* reasons to do so will probably harm the project.
<pearle> good points
<silmaril> dezwo: yea, that is a good point. there will likely be some political drama then
<dezwo> I'm not even talking about the political drama.
<Mole> so team leaders are chosen based on dedication and how involved they are with the project. and also what position they best fit?
<Mouglue> my opinion only here... Project lead (Mole) should at first pick "Team" leads.
<pearle> i'm with mouglue
<skywisenight> probably best.
<silmaril> agreed
<pearle> as long as it's discussed and a consensus is reached
<Strangerr> agreed
<Mouglue> He should "Interview" people and then decide.
<Zackron> yea, you have to start somewhere since this is so new, once things get more established, you will have a better idea as to who takes part in what
<Mouglue> Onces thats done. We go from there.
<Kalldrexx> Mole, and leadership skills
<Mole> ok
<Mikhail_> i think at this point mole is well aware of all those already helping the project
<Mouglue> because this discussion will go on forever.
<Mole> pm picks the team leads
<Mole> objections?
<Jerky> nope
<dezwo> No.
<Strangerr> none here
<Triss> nope
<Lucky_Luciano> no objections here
<pearle> nadda
<Mikhail_> yea, you are a dirty old man
<Zackron> nodda
<Mikhail_> ;-)
<Zackron> lol
<skywisenight> nope
<Mikhail_> no objections
<Mole> easily solved
<Mole> ok then, moving on
<Mole> i briefly touched on #3 earlier, but i'll do so again just so we didn' tmiss it
<Mikhail_> Applications should be reviewed by the department leaders
<Mikhail_> .
<Mole> once team leaders are picked, the team leaders have the power to pick who they want on their teams
<Mikhail_> aye
<Strangerr> agreed
<Maddeva> agree
<Jerky> agree
<dezwo> agreed
<pearle> agree
<Mole> objections?
<Triss> nope
<Mole> moving on
<Mole> #4
<Mole> it was discussed to keep our development "closed" until we have something to show, at which time we open it up and become open source
<Mikhail_> WE go opensource, but do not publish our source or open the cvs until we have our first prototype "demo" ready
<Mole> right. sorry about that. :)
<Mikhail_> which is i think ok with the GPL
<Mouglue> (which seriously could be "Months")
<silmaril> I suggest using whatever free libraries available until first release. Then re-evaluate, but not lock in on being open source at this meeting. Other than the first release being open source, I think nothing should be decided now
* Mole sets mode: +v Ashy_
<Kalldrexx> Note: this does not mean we won't be asking for community involvement and suggestions
<Ashy_> how do you define "something to show"?
<pearle> i'm with silmaril
<Jerky> Agree, Silmaril. We have to constantly reevaluate
<Jerky> without feature creep
<Maddeva> i agree with silmaril
<Mikhail_> agreed
<silmaril> the goal must be to produce a game, not to produce source for the community
<Strangerr> how closed do you mean by "closed developement" ? dont forget the community will want some info on what is going on
<silmaril> Strangerr: closed as in source tree closed to those actually in the development team
<Lucky_Luciano> I would keep this as closed as possible before we have a very basic engine to show...
<Strangerr> uhm
<Mole> what about Ashy_'s question?
<Mole> how do we define "something to show"?
<Jerky> when we have a working prototype
<dezwo> Ahsy: Something to show would at least be a very basic client/server prototype.
<Maddeva> as long as 'news updates' are given to the public as and when
<Zackron> actually, I feel there may be some potential legal issues involved with the open source question that may require that decision to be made from the start, here is why....
<skywisenight> From experience, I would be tempted to hold everything back until there is something to show, password the wiki and only release stuff to the forums.
<silmaril> I agree with skywisenight
<Mikhail_> something to sho. A playable demo featureless
<Maddeva> same
<Kalldrexx> Good question Ashy_
<Lucky_Luciano> I would say: a pre-alpha version where the developers can login on the server and run around
<Jerky> aree with sky
<pearle> as do I
* Mole agrees with skywisenight.
<Lucky_Luciano> will be difficukt enough, i'm sure...
<Mikhail_> <Azgaroth> aye, strangerr has a point, people want to see what we are doing, so why not give em some "teasers" now and then?
<Strangerr> a pre alpha tech-demo would be "something to show" I think
<Lucky_Luciano> difficult*
<silmaril> "something to show" is when the team deems a client/server version playable
<Mikhail_> once we can connect to the server
<Zackron> ... First, your initial developers are going to either be working and developing code as open source, or as something where the copyright is held by someone, secondly, if you decide to not go open source after the first release, and the first release is GPL'ed, i don't think your going to be allowed to directly take the GPL project and use it in a commercial release without being in violation of the license
<Maddeva> surely a picture of something now and then would be ok
<Jerky> true, in this community, if we dont release teasers, we will lose people
<silmaril> Zackron: source can be released under several licenses
<Ashy_> would it need to be playable or just a tech-demo as Strangerr suggested
<Mole> so we don't release any source for our project until we hit our alpha stage?
<Lucky_Luciano> There is not much to show in early development ;)
<silmaril> Maddeva: it is the source code the question is about
<Zackron> true, sorry, I though I heard GPL bouncing around
<Lucky_Luciano> I agree Mole
<skywisenight> no there isn't much to show early on. Some day I should break out some the screenshots of wish in the first year and a half. Nothing like what you guys saw, and it's best that way.
<silmaril> a protopy, a tech demo, whatever the dev team deems "releaseable"
<Triss> releasing source with barely anything inside is just pointless
<Jerky> ok Sky, you do know better than any of us :)
<Mikhail_> ok so big code release party at Alpha 1?
<Mole> how much of the wiki do we lock down? the entire thing? parts of it? it is supposed to be our "idea engine". do we stop the community from entering ideas there and just allow them to do it on the forums?
<Strangerr> untill we can release a pre-alpha tech demo (dosent have to be playable ) it would be best to have it closed but to keep the community informed on the developement process
<Jerky> thank you for the wisdom
<Maddeva> i'd say lock it down and let people use the forums
<Mikhail_> Mole, we keep wiki the idea engine and let everyone see the ideas, we have a seperate project management engine
<skywisenight> I would keep the wiki internal. Don't really want joe-blow reading up on the process, problems (etc)
<silmaril> Maddeva: I think the wiki should be locked down to the dev team. selected material should be posted on the website and forums
<pearle> we can use the wiki as our core design document and can incorporate ideas from the forums
<Lucky_Luciano> absolutely Sku
<Lucky_Luciano> Sky*
<Mole> ok, i see Mikhail's point.
<Strangerr> agreed with skywisenight
<Mikhail_> I dont agree with sky
<Mikhail_> I think we should keep the ideas open
<Kalldrexx> Ashy_, tech demo type thing would be best
<Kalldrexx> ok, want to quickly explain something here, I think closed development is a bit more then source code.
<silmaril> I agree with sky
<Mikhail_> We can lock it down so only devs can post on it
<Kalldrexx> skywisenight had the correct idea
<skywisenight> Ideas open, yes, but that's forum stuff, we can keep them upto date (etc) but they don't need to know everything.
<Mikhail_> i think its the wrong way of doing it
<Lucky_Luciano> You shouldn't work on ideas in Pre-alpha state. Just make sure you get something working...
<Mikhail_> Why not?
<Strangerr> Mikhail_, we got the forums for the ideas stuff and we can post them there
<Mikhail_> its a community effort, a community project
<Lucky_Luciano> That's not important then
<Jerky> it can be discouraging
<Jerky> for them
<Mikhail_> Strangerr, why do we make people read through huge ammount of crappy posts to find out there are no darkin in the game?
<Mikhail_> when they can go to our "idea" engine and see
<Strangerr> Mikhail_, not hard to sticky the importnd stuff
<Strangerr> that is why we got mods on the forums
<skywisenight> It's a community effort in being that anyone can join up and help in, but I don't think total information for all in necessary.
<Mouglue> If you make the Wiki "Closed" then I would suggest you have a person responcibile for Posting in the Open Forums part any relavent information.
<Jerky> agree
<Mole> so once they join our community and get involved, we give them access. is that the proposal?
<Ashy_> maybe we could have a weekly update for the public?
<Mikhail_> so you want to give it out individually? that would take forever
<Ashy_> or something
<skywisenight> and maybe a development log on the forums updated everytime something important happens.
<skywisenight> yes, what ashy_ said.
<silmaril> yes, that's a good idea
<Lucky_Luciano> agree wholeheardly
<Strangerr> good idea with the dev log
<Mikhail_> ok, so who is the one who gets to do this pointless task?
<Jerky> DevJournal!
<Kalldrexx> Thats a great idea
<Mouglue> the Project Lead. :-)
<Strangerr> a dev journal would be best imo
<Ashy_> heh Mouglue :D
<Strangerr> ;)
<Mole> i knew someone would suggest that... :)
<Strangerr> hehe
<Mole> i can take that as one of my duties
<Mouglue> actually Program Lead woudl be better.
<Maddeva> Is it faithless & I who engage the public with information?
<Lucky_Luciano> yep, the PR-guy shoult take care of this...
<Mikhail_> mouglue,. its not all about programming though
<Mole> sounds like a good job for the pr department
<Mouglue> ahh true.
<Mikhail_> agreed
<Jerky> Mole could require updates from each team weekly, then consolidate them to 1
<Mouglue> yeah PR dept.
<Strangerr> Mikhail_, we got PR right :) let them handle it :)
<Mikhail_> give faithless something to do
<Mikhail_> ;-)
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<Mole> so it sounds like we came up with this:
<Mole> Lock down the wiki for internal use only
<Mole> Source tree locked down and not release until alpha release (at least)
<Mole> Important updates/events are posted in a special forum
<Mole> did i miss anything from this discussion?
<Kalldrexx> Mikhail_, first of all dont 'we have a PR team
<Mole> Kalldrexx, that is our "community spokesman"
<Strangerr> mole you missed the "give more work to faithless " sentence :P but beside that we are good
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<Mikhail_> thanks kall i think somepeople forgot to mention that
<Jerky> the White Paper would say PR is in charge of keeping the community together
<Mikhail_> heck i forget who appointed the pr team....was it .....mort....a yes..
<Mortideus> Yes it was
<Mole> anything to add to this topic?
<Jerky> PR takes care of DevJournal
<Mortideus> Not at the moment no, sounds good
<pearle> i think we can move on
<Mikhail_> ok
<Triss> just don't promise frequent updates to people, what if there will be nothing new to show for many weeks?
<Mole> ok. moving on
<Maddeva> faithless told me he's hoping i do all the work and he gets the glory lol
<Mole> not moving on
<dezwo> If there's nothing to show, we will announce that, too, Triss.
<Mole> we will have to come up with a release schedule and stick to that. the team leads will decide that schedule
<Ashy_> hopefully there will always be new developments
<silmaril> Triss: if there's no updates done in weeks, we have more serious problems. "implementing feature x in graphics engine" or "working on feature Y this week as well" is also updates
<skywisenight> yup
<Mole> good?
<Triss> true, but it's nothing that gets people excited
<Mikhail_> good
<pearle> good
<Lucky_Luciano> true. Just let the community know you are still here
<skywisenight> well, development isn't exactly exciting most of the time.
<Triss> just don't promise exciting news every week, thats my point
<Strangerr> Triss, info is not supposed to keep ppl excited it is supposed to keep them on track
<skywisenight> I'm good.
<Mole> ok, moving on
<Mole> if we need to come back to #4, we'll do so later
<Lucky_Luciano> okido
<Mole> #5 -- project goals
<Mole> what are they?
<Mole> 3 people posted to the forum. (that's you 3)
<Kalldrexx> not here
<Jerky> heh
<Mikhail_> 1. develop an EMMORPG that provided a rich story, and an emersive and evolving plot
<Jerky> ummm
<Mole> oops, that should be thanks you 3, not that's...
<Lucky_Luciano> isn't it a bit early to even think about that?
* Mikhail_ sets mode: +v Apredox
<Jerky> oh, phew
<dezwo> We're talking about long term goals, not short term objectives, Lucky.
<Jerky> White Paper says we have to document first before we start any coding
<Jerky> lot of it too
<Triss> it should be more like to have a some kind of client being able to connect to a server in say 6 months time or something
<Mole> long term goals. what do we want to accomplish with this project?
<Lucky_Luciano> Well: seamless or zoned?
<Jerky> seamless is the consensus for the goal
* Quits: Sires (TFrevold@eaa5f59d.neo.14056255.com.hmsk) (Quit: Sires)
<dezwo> That's way to tangible for a goal.
<Apredox> To recreate what we once had or to make a sister world?
<dezwo> Lemme post mine:
<Mole> triss, you gave an objective, not a goal. objectives have deadlines
<dezwo> I think our goal should be to develop a game that catches the feeling and the atmosphere of Wish without trying to copy it. Our goal should be to be inspired rather than restricted by what Wish was.
<Triss> right
<Mole> good one, dezwo
<Jerky> I like that
<Mole> i'm seeing that as 2 goals
<Apredox> So we are gona use wish's ideas but not copy them?
<Mole> we're not trying to recreate wish
<dezwo> I don't want to *use* Wish's idea, I rather want to build upon them.
<Strangerr> yes we dont want to copy Wish as a game ony take the best stuff out of it
<Jerky> Goal: To use Wish ideas without copying them :)
<Strangerr> only*
<Apredox> So your using Wish's ideas, taking the best stuff out of it
<Jerky> and build upon them
<Kalldrexx> Mole, have a world where you can both be an adventurer and a non-fighting type (like crafter) and still have fun?
<Mikhail_> that says nothing about what we are accually trying to develop
<Lucky_Luciano> I wouldn't say: "what worked in Wish" but "what DIDN't work in Wish"...
<Mikhail_> a sports game could copy ideas out of wish
<Mikhail_> we need to focus the goal on our creation
<Mikhail_> yes, that will embody wish
<Mikhail_> but it will be a lot more
<Mole> how about: develop a world where anyone's actions can make a difference
<Mikhail_> to just say: our goal to get best ideas from wish....says nothing of where we are going
<pearle> How about to avoid game systems that create unneede player grind and repetition.
<Jerky> true Mikhail
<Mikhail_> thats better
<Apredox> So sort of real time experance, everyone can make a differnce. One player can change the world?
<Triss> Mole: everyone says that...
<Mole> if everyone says it, is it important? should it be a goal?
<Apredox> brb
<pearle> To design a game where the rules strive to give players more freedom instead of locking them down into restrictive gameplay.
<Triss> not the main goal, like every MMORPG has this as the main goal and it never works
<Strangerr> a game in which every player can make a difference , a gam in which newbies feel they are as much needed as long time players
<Mikhail_> To create an emersive and fun experience where player actions have a lasting effect on the future,
<Mole> it's a goal. it should be something to strive for even though you may not achieve it
<Jerky> suggestions Skywise?
<Ashy_> RealWorld :D
<Mikhail_> <Azgaroth> one goal: Create and maintain a MMORPG for players, with Live content were anyones action can make a differance, no matter skill or wealth.... or sumpn
<Strangerr> nicely said
<dezwo> Isn't that our vision rather than our goal?
<Lucky_Luciano> I agree sezmo
<Mole> it's been suggested that we post our ideas in the forum and look at this again in a week
<Lucky_Luciano> dezmo*
<Jerky> yeah, only 3 posts so far in the forum
<Mikhail_> agreed w/ mole
<Strangerr> agreed with mole
<Jerky> we could have each team make their goals once they are formed
<pearle> as do i
* Ashy_ also
<Mole> ok, by the silence it sounds like the "aye's" have it. we'll take this to the forums and revisit in a week
<Mikhail_> jerky, i think we should have a main goal, but i also agree it is a good idea to make every team post goals
* Mole sets mode: +v fuinelen
<skywisenight> I think this is a discussion for project leads to determine, and them be open to changes down the road. The goal, as I see it is basicly, 1. Make game 2. Make it a good player experience by incorporating a,b,c via x,y,z
<Lucky_Luciano> a forum is a better place to discuss this idd
<pearle> i think the mission statement was our vision/main goal
<Mole> thoughts on letting the project leads define the goals?
<skywisenight> first goal: Get team
<pearle> not all goals, mole
<Jerky> once all teams make goals, it will be easier for the whole to see what the direction is
<Mikhail_> mole 1 main goal, then each team goal
<pearle> or else those who are not team leads but are a part of the project will feel left out
<Mole> how about project leads define goals, and we vote on them?
<skywisenight> this is the hard part about community lead stuff.
<pearle> yeah
<Mikhail_> ok mole sounds fair
<Mole> everyone has an opinion, pearle. we can keep the thread in the forums for the community to give input
<Lucky_Luciano> I think Mole's idea is realistic
<Mole> any objections?
<Mikhail_> nay
<pearle> nope
<Mortideus> Nope
<Mole> good.
<Mikhail_> any more topics?
<skywisenight> eventualy, something needs to be nailed down to a point, and it all needs to make sense together, and realisticly, everyone can give there ideas (etc) but eventualy, a smaller group of people need to make the final desision.
<Mole> do we have any open's to discuss?
<skywisenight> agreed.
<Mole> do we have any open's to discuss?
<Mikhail_> now if anyone has a question
<Mikhail_> <Nicky2> will the PvP be anything like the old UO ?
<Mikhail_> THIS IS NOT THE TIME FOR THIS QUESTION, thank you
<Mole> Nicky2, unknown. we're not there yet
<Jerky> squash that
<Kalldrexx> skywisenight, you mean the goals?
<Mole> we have a long way to go before we can answer that
<Mole> any other opens?
<Mole> going once....
<Mole> going twice....
<Ashy_> Has it been said how often meetings (like this one) will take place?
<Mikhail_> we have one tuesday
<Mole> we'll try to hold them weekly
<Mole> (at least weekly)
<Ashy_> ok
<Mole> look at the announcements for when
<Mole> i firmly believe in the rule that if there is no published agenda, then there should be no meeting
<Jerky> are we OK for bandwidth usage/webspace?
<Mortideus> Currently yes
<Mole> we'll try to have agenda's published 24 hours in advance of the meeting
<Mole> any other opens?
<Ashy_> Has any thought been put into how will the game sustain itself?
<Lucky_Luciano> none here
<Ashy_> b/w costs etc
<Mole> not yet, Ashy_. too early to define that.
<Mikhail_> yes ashy, we got options there, but nothing to consider till we have something to show
<Mole> what M said. :)
<Jerky> that depends on how our client/server code goes, which will determine server hardware, and on and on
<Ashy_> ok fair enough
<Mole> any other opens?
<Mole> Ashy_?
<Mole> :)
* Ashy_ keeps quiet
<Jerky> lol
<Mole> :P
<Mole> ok, then this meeting is closed. we just took 1 hour and 13 minutes
* Mole sets mode: -m