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Combat requirements |
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pendrako |
Apr 11 2005, 06:39 AM
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Newbie
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Minthos - I like your idea about Light and Severe wounds. Bushido Blade, a playstation fighting game, used a similar system instead of the omnipresent health bars on all other fighting games. The game was based on ancient samurai combat, and it was possible to defeat someone with just one strike, which made learning how to defend properly vital. Early fights tended to be over very quickly, but once fighters learned to defend the head and body fights began lasting longer and longer. The strategy changed to attacking the arms and legs in order to disable them and slow your opponent, opening up a weakness in their defense through which to make a killing strike.
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Head of Phoenix Realms Design
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Jerky |
May 6 2005, 06:06 PM
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Former PW Project Manager
Group: PW Admin
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Joined: 11-January 05
From: Dallas, GA
Member No.: 62
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While Wish had an open skill system, I do not think they allowed warrior/mages. I am sure that we will not be allowing people to be mages and warriors. The way you described doing this is not the most common. UO did it by linking skills. If one goes up, its linked skill goes down. In this case, any fighting skills (depending on what we implement) would be in a group and any magic would be in the opposing group. We could get a lot more specific, but at this point, since none of our skills have been decided, we don't need to. This system could be set up with a simple 1/1 ratio, or it could be very diverse. The 1to1 system is simple in that, when one goes up 0.1, the other goes down 0.1. straight across the board. This can be expanded on in many ways, for example: We could do this sort of thing in another ratio other than 1/1. We could also not have it go into effect until a character has reached skill level X, so players could experiment for a while until they found something that they liked.
Anyways, this sort of balancing needs testing to find the best configuration. Most other games do a lot of it in BETA, but almost never find that balance. This is where the term 'Nerfing' came to be. Devs know that in order to change the course of their game (for the greater good), they need to try and balance things, even after a game goes live. We are FAR from this, but it is important to think about nonetheless.
As far as as parts of this discussion (thread) go, there are some other things we need to consider:
Combos have been brought up. This is something that needs to be decided on.
Line of sight. I know people have talked about line of sight as far as ranged weapons and hiding from mobs.
Direction facing. This has been brought up. Whether a person/mob is facing the right direction.
Interface. A request for something other than clicking has been made. A request for nice icons (although not totally pertaining to this discussion) has been made. Memorizing spells has been brought up. Runes have been mentioned for this, but there are many options.
Limitations. Time limitations on things like putting on armor, equiping items/weapons, etc. has been brought up.
Damage. Will there be different types? Severe, light, medium, heavy, critical, unconscious, backstab, sneak attack, throat slit, parry, dodge, block, deflect, evade, absorb, channel, redirect, etc.
A lot of these items can cross over into other discussions, but they all have some merit when it comes to combat. I think the time is near that we break the broad things down into their own threads.
Until then, lets get discussions moving again. I'm going to try to open things up again on all the un-decided requirments threads. Expect more this weekend :). (Now that I finally have some time ;))
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Erik Briggs (Jerky) Project Manager My Blog
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Zephir62 |
Jul 7 2005, 05:55 PM
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Having big plans could put lots of stress on the programmers and the engine, but having big plans and putting lots of time into it pays off.
You can't have random spawning. We need to make that a thing of the past. Things with intellect should have actual intellect. If two goblins come across eachother, they could either A. Get along really well and maybe pair up on their ambush the human game, B. Hate eachother, and try and fight eachother, or C. Pass eachother by indifferently and walk away. While, with a pack of wolves, they wouldn't be so accepting - It would either be B or C. Options would limit. Next up would be how they are spawned. Each mob would be designated variable male or female. Upon contact of two different genders, they could "mate" (no animations, please) and eventually another of the mob would be born, possibly if you wish make a "smaller, more childish" version of the mob if you felt you had the time to make it. The new-born would instantly be taken into the group, and so would the female/male mated with. Statistics for the mob would be a random between a minimum and a max. When a group of mobs would be formed, the "strongest" of the group would be elected the leader - maybe you could designate them for the player, have their name in red, etc. I could go on, but anyway, you pretty much get the point for this subject. While it sounds very complicated to the average person, this would most likely be suprizingly easy to do as it is mostly variables and short/fast procedures. This would also make for an interesting case as species and certain animals could even be driven to extinction. Have trees be able to cut down and "reproduce" would also allow for entire forests to be cleared and put for building.
Next up, I'd like to brainstorm on the idea of Archery. You have point and click movement. But say you want real-time archery with wind, obstacles, and the player controlling the aim for himself. Let's make a fake scenario as it would be easiest to explain. Assign the key "C" for combat. To move, you left click on terrain. To pull out your bow, which you have equipped, you press and hold C. The camera zooms in up to your shoulder with the bow ready and the arrow on the string, and no crosshair is shown. Left clicking is reassigned at this point from moving, to pulling back the string. You hold left click, aim while pulling back the arrow, and let go of the left click. This let's the arrow fly to where you shot it at - the more you pull back, the less wind has effect on it's direction, the more damage it does, the further it flies, and the more durability damage it does to your bow. Sounds easy and nice, right? Right.
Sword of Sword combat would be a tough one, if you were to make it completely player based, as Point and Click movement hinders how diverse you can make it. On the other hand, Point and Click is a good thing by reducing strain on the servers, so it's double edged. Hopefully someone else out there could think of something dynamic for melee combat. But I'd like to think that in a realistic game, a brave peasant could kill a cocky knight.
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forgot to log in. Moderators, delete the above post
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Shaidar |
Jul 8 2005, 07:47 AM
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I think spawn point are a must, at least vs. birth. If the game were made so that mobs had to birth then as you said mobs could be driven to extinction. The first places to go extinct would be the newb areas, this would push the newbs out to fight tougher things and eventually they couldnt handle it and they would quit. The only way that birth could work is if mobs could get pregnant, come to term, and birth a mob in less than 1 game hour it just wouldnt work, its not realistic. Spawning may not be realistic either but you can make it so some mobs spawn out of caves that a player cant enter but mobs can exit, or just have it so mobs spawn off the map and explore thier way on. Problem with set spawn points such as caves etc. though is then you have to account for campers. Over all the random spawn, though unrealistic, is the best way to go for a game setting.
As to your archery idea I think that the first person aim and pull would be a nice additive though I think that if this is the case they would def have to give the option for constant WASD movement because if I dropped into first person to aim and I couldnt use my mouse to move, only to fire, then I would have to have a way to avoid the monsters that may be coming close to me by backing a way while pulling the arrow for release.
As for melee combat I would love to see a way to target different areas. Say I enclose on a monster and the monster blocks its head, instead I click on its stomach and attack it there. I think it was Black & White that did this best. When 2 creatures would encounter eachother you could click where you wanted to hit your opponent. If they were not blocking the right area you would hit successfully. This would add a very unique combat system to an MMO, and if you guys think you could make it work... That would be AWESOME!
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World Concept Team Member
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Minthos |
Nov 20 2005, 08:39 PM
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PW Programmer
Group: PW Developer
Posts: 316
Joined: 12-January 05
Member No.: 198
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You say that like you expect a "normal" mmorpg like wow where level differences are huge, where two level 25 characters are too weak for one level 30 mob, but can kill 10 level 20 mobs with no problem. I don't know if PW will be like that, but I hope it won't.
What prevents a mob from becoming pregnant and giving birth in less than one hour?
That assumes there are indeed newbie areas, and that there are no easy mobs outside those newbie areas. I would rather like a system where the wilderness everywhere is full of mobs of varying difficulty, so wherever you go and whatever "level" you are, you can usually find something you can kill and something that can kill you.
What this would mean for noob area mobs becoming extinct is that some of the easy mobs would always stay in areas that are too dangerous for any adventurer that would want to bother killing them, and so if they become extinct in other areas they can reproduce in that dangerous area and migrate to less dangerous areas.
That assumes players can defeat any and all mobs that spawn at the spawn point. I think, if mobs want to gather in one place long enough to spawn out of it, they would also want to be able to defend themselves against eradication by a high-level character.
I hope what I've written between the lines here is intelligible :)
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