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> Avatars, Importing allowed
RicoSuave
post Aug 15 2007, 03:08 PM
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An idea crossed my mind a bit ago. Should we be allowed to import a user/player-created avatar to show others what our character looks like?
I will try to touch as many of the pros & cons of each side as I can to help spark a live thread...

Before we get into why it can't work ("naysayers"), try to keep an open mind until the end of the thread before deciding please. I'd like to get many people's opinions here. Thanks!

Many players in MMORPGs still try to role-play the best they can (against vast odds). They reminisce about pen and paper days of AD&D. They build their characters by hand, crafting them, molding them, growing them into the characters they feel with whom they can best interact. To some, it's more than just a PC, it's an extension of who they wish they could be if they were suddenly whisked away into a fantasy world. Some of these even go so far as to draw or design their portraits (avatars) to help give a personality to their character... and a few even use their OWN faces. They create backstory and history to develop their character's traits and ethos. Much like the role-playing thread we have here on the forums, we readily interact with other characters using our own.

Then comes along the typical MMORPG with its built-in, cartoon-looking avatars. They force unoriginality. They categorize players. Suddenly, individuality is lost to the role-player as his little, stinky goblin, or brilliant fairy, or burly animal-training vagabond is forced to look like every other goblin or fairy etc. in the game. I imagine it would be difficult to REALLY feel immersed. I can't think of a single online game that allows a player to import their avatar into the engine. There are many single-player games that do allow it, and even Oblivion allows you to create a face, as it were... albeit extremely limited. However, it's just not the same as creating it yourself.

Even if you have no artistic skill whatsoever (/raises hand), you could easily download a graphic or use a myriad of premade ones. Suddenly, you allow the end-user to not just play the game, but BE the game. They could potentially feel a closer attachment knowing that people know you because of your avatar (face), and not your name... which we have not yet decided whether duplicates are allowed yet or not. If duplicates are allowed, this is (in my opinion) a fantastic way to separate the Jerky (12-yr old "Jerk" from Houstin) from the Jerky (XX-yr old "Friend" from Springville) that we already know.

Unfortunately (there are ALWAYS cons), this would be allowing the user/player to place on the screen an image of whatever content one might imagine. This is my biggest point for the cons. The last thing I want is for some pervert out there to have the ability to put on my screen some picture of lewd content. One incident is too many. We shouldn't have a "Report a Violation" system... by then, it's too late. There must be some way of screening images (scripting, GM-visuals, combination, whatever) if this will work. Nothing is worth the risk of allowing that level of abuse.

Another con that came to mind is what kind of strain will this place on the server. We keep coming up with good ideas, again and again... and if they were all to be implemented, we would need significant financial support to power the server for even a brief moment, let alone for years. What kind of throughput requirements are there for such a system-wide process? Are we going to allow level 1 newbies access to the system? Are we only going to allow financial supporters access? Intellectual providers? Friends of Mole? GMs? If only a few had access to it (we can discuss this later on) it might decrease the workload of the server substantially.

I'd like to hear many ideas from everyone before we have anyone saying "YES! Let's make it work," or "NO! It could never happen," please.

Thoughts?
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RicoSuave
post Aug 18 2007, 08:09 PM
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Jerky
post Aug 18 2007, 11:25 PM
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Thanks for the bump. I read this the first time, had a reply in my mind and didn't have the time to do it. I then forgot. smile.gif

So, let me understand this completely before I delve into it. By "avatar" you just mean a picture? If this is all you mean then it would be very simple and not be a lot of extra load. We could even allow the assigning of the avatar pic to be done on the website, so there wouldn't be a clunky in-game interface for it. This would also allow us to screen them before they were okayed and released to be used.

At first I thought you meant importing a character and its stats into the game.

Now, my opinion on the subject would tend to lean toward the character creation process. If we had one where you are able to choose a very high number of combinations then that might be good enough. I agree that most players find the look of their characters to be important. I think this is something that WoW missed out on, but I think they have their reasons (I won't go into it here). Character customization is HUGE. As in, hugely important. We've talked about being able to decorate your own home (the inside and outside), as well as small touches to your character.

As far as paying for this goes, if we are to be free, it stands to reason that we will need some money somehow. The topic of premium content has been discussed a lot. This could definitely be an area where we make people pay to get access to this fun stuff. No pay, no customizations.


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Dwilf
post Aug 21 2007, 10:38 AM
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Hmm, this idea has some merit.

I'd have this type of picture as a portrait to accompany the player written biography page character's should have. This way RPer's and people can use this feature if they want and other people don't have to look at it if they don't want.

I'd want a game rendered pic of the face they made in character creation as default in any party or chat box in game.
An option to display the Bio Portrait instead of a render as an option when you view their Bio would be good.
We could also allow GMs to attach custom art to special NPCs that replace the render, just to make the main villain that bit cooler or whatever.


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RicoSuave
post Aug 24 2007, 05:01 PM
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I'm sorry I was unable to respond sooner (I was out of country). Yes, Jerky. I meant just the simple character picture... you understood perfectly to what I was referring.

Dwilf,
That's a GREAT idea! As a tangent to something you said just a moment ago, perhaps that biography could also be editted by GMs if a player breaks a rule (or something)... Gassy, the Exploiter... Rico, the Cheat... $#!#ur (WHOA! NJPaul, your character name got blocked!), the Munchkin... the possibilities are near limitless. However, back to what you said, that's a great idea to have the biography be an option (even a possible default one).

We might also consider a thread sometime about possible ideas of things we can do to garner funds for the project, and eventually, game. Among these things: Last names, Titles, Portraits, Biographies, Housing (customizable), maybe sound clips (custom or not). Obviously, I feel none of the extras should grant a direct benefit of core gameplay... just the "Fun Stuff" as Jerky put it. smile.gif
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Jerky
post Aug 26 2007, 02:08 AM
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And to tangent again, I think that bio could also include all the deeds that a player did to effect the world. Whether script generated, or GM written, it would be great to have a history of your player for those who aren't going to try and write it themselves. It would be really cool to pull up the details of an acquantance and see all the famous things he/she has done in the world.

This could list all the unique quests he/she has completed, all the live-content deeds participated in, and so on. I also think if this was tied into the ingame newspaper and/or website it would be nice.


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Brotoi
post Dec 2 2007, 09:10 PM
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Play CoH or CoV for one month. Better yet, get the Good vs. Evil game box/key and play both.

There is no better character customization system possible, and I strongly suspect there never will be.

The upside of this system is that if you build it into the game from the ground up, then it also opens the way to create customizable enemy NPCs, customizable Guild NPCs, customizable butler/maid/house servant NPCs, customizable Guild House/Village guard NPCs, ad infinitum.

The downside of this system is that it dramatically increases the work load of the art and animation departments, two areas which are already overloaded with the creation of new content once the core game systems are in place.

However, there is also a solution for this: Design with the assumption of player-created content

If the only job of the art department is the creation of new, better, constantly evolving art resources that the players themselves combine together to produce buildings, enemy NPCs, friendly NPCs, terrains, maps, etc., then your playerbase is paying for the priviledge of improving your gameworld.

Spore is coming out soon. I suspect it's repercussions will echo throughout the online game world for decades. Player-created content is going to become an assumed element of future games. It is entirely possible that when we speak of "fourth generation MMORPGs", what we are really speaking of is a set of editors and a minimal gameworld with the vast majority of content being provided by the players themselves either through improvements to assigned areas of a seamless map or the extension of the game world through player-created instances.

In other words, a fourth-generation MMORPG will need a beautiful and complete game world right from the get go, and then will also need some way that players can add to or extend that world.

The downside, as always, is that most players are crappy designers and good content will be a rare commodity.
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Minthos
post Dec 4 2007, 03:06 PM
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We can't bank on players to make our content for us, but by allowing them to add to our content, we enhance the game greatly. I think we should allow players to upload their own facial textures and hair meshes. Automated enforcement of texture resolution and polygon count, GMs audit for obviously wrong submissions. Players responsible for having and granting us the licence to distribute and use the content they upload. If anything is complained upon, GMs investigate the validity of the claims and take appropriate action. It should be a simple matter - copyright violations should be complained about out-of-game, and things that look nasty can be evaluated by a quick second glance.
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Leonardoe_Murray
post May 9 2008, 09:07 AM
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in the 10 years i been playing online games.of all the games i have played the one with the best charecter creation interface was second life. in the almost 6 years i been in that community i have never come acrossed another person that looks exactly like me. of course it is a much different genera of game but a charecter customization simular to that would be amazing in PW. of course in second life there is some that do look exactly alike but thats either becuse they purchesed the shaped from a creator of shapes instead of making it them selves or two friends decided they wanted to be identical twins.of course second life is purely based off player created content heck there is a few MMorpgs operating inside second life at this time as well.
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Jerky
post May 9 2008, 11:46 AM
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We're leaning that way on character customization, but its not high on the priority list just yet. Because we are hobbyists with limited time atm, we have to focus on core functionality to begin. When it comes time to add fun things after the core is ready, this will be high on my list. smile.gif


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Honis
post May 12 2008, 12:12 AM
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Brotoi,

I terms of time it would take the modeler to produce NPCs I think if a random button was introduced it would save them lots of time. Oblivion had such a button.

In addition to a random button, adjustable ranges for each value could be made so that the Large Feet Hobgoblems of the North don't randomly get modeled into the Peg Leg Hobgoblems of the East. that way when you press random for the Northerners they will have varying sizes of just Large feet and the East will have varying sizes of small feet even when they have the same base mesh.


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