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GageEndal
This keeps popping up in the threads so I thought I would turn it into one of it's own.

I for one think that this is a great idea.. so long as there are some subtle restrictions. Nothing major that would make flying not as much fun, but just something so that the game can keep even.

For one, I think that Player Races that can fly (pixies, dragonkin, gargoyles, demons, etc, etc, etc...) should have a certain amount of vitality. Naturaly the Pixies and Demons would have a bit more since they were born to fly, but Dragonkin are a hybrid and Gargoyles are supposed to be made from stone.. hard to fly with that ;). The vitality wouldn't be anything crazy, just something that makes it so they can fly from city to city, but not across the ocean or anything.

Also, I think that non-flying races should be allowed to tame / dominate races that can fly (Pegesus, Hipogryff, Dragons(?)) and the like. I'm not so sure about the Dragons because they are more of an intelligent race, they are problem solvers and I don't think that they would let a mere human "Tame" them... More of a mutual respect... I'm ranting... sorry.

Anyhow, These are my thoughts on flying in the game. I personaly think it's a great idea since it allows for players to be able to explore secret areas in mountains and the like. I also like the idea of a clan of Gargoyles who meet in a hidden mountain field... or of a band of amazons who ride upon pegesus to their secret forest glade... sexy stuff... ranting again... amazons... yeah....


Alright, that's it for me. Your thoughts?
Jerky
I think the point is, however, Kalldrexx, that the player that would be able to get to a dragon and domesticate it (however this would be accomplished?) would already be able to walk on any road without any danger. This person would be at such a high level/skill, that almost all mobs would flee in his/her presence. And as far as the economy goes....Why would a player of this stature need to be participating in the economy at that base level? Why would he/she need to run from town to town bringing resources or searching for gold. I think the point is that this (getting/taming/riding) a dragon would be so hard/difficult/rare that, by the time it happened it would not effect the regular aspects of the game in the ways you might think. Even a guild...If they were to become rich/strong enough to get a dragon (and they should be very rare/limited), why would they need to use said dragon in the pursuit of more money, or to disrupt the petty economy?

I can see all the reasons why people would be scared to allow dragons at all, let alone let them be tameable, rideable, trainable. I do not, however, think that that means we should just close the door on this idea. It is just a fantastic idea. And guess what? We are making a FANTASY world here. Why not try to put the Fantastic where it belongs.....in Fantasy.

Even if it were so hard/difficult/rare/impossible to do. Even if it took a year-long (real time)quest, I would try just for the fun of it. How fantastic would that be! What a roleplay experience! I am trying to find the elusive dragon. Anyway, thats my 2
KallDrexx
except that it would mean that high level players could screw up the economy. Not only because they would be faster then horses most likely but for one major reason. THERE IS NO RISK.

In wish, I had to take care in my route to another town. Sometimes wolves blocked a path in which I had to go and I had to go around them. Sometimes other creatures were near by in which made me make a detour. If you are on a flying dragon, there is NOTHING to stop you or put you in danger. You dont' even have to follow paths on a flying creature, just go directly from point A to point B.

This will hurt the regional economy. You take out the risk of transferring goods from one area to another, you take on one major aspect of the economy. And like it was said, just limiting it to high levle players doesn't work, becasue as time goes on, more and more people will be high level.
Chris
This question very much affects the idea of a "local economy". In Wish, fast transportation was left out on purpose. This way, supply and demand for certain goods could be different depending on the region, and one could make a living buying goods in one town and selling it in another.

This does not mean that having flying, ridable mounts is a bad thing. I would be glad to have the possibility of flying, but if we want to keep the local economies that were part of Wish, riding a dragon should not give a major speed advantage over, say, riding a horse.
Shadowmancer
No... While fun it would just make some players all too powerful and it would also be very hard to program flying into the game... Making sure that only really high level players can use dragons? Sorry, wouldn't work: after the game has been out for a while the number of high level players would grow and grow...you'd end up with loads of people rampaging around the place on dragons, destroying everything they can find. Flying on dragons welsomes powerplaying and that is not a good thing for an MMORPG style game.
GageEndal
Bullox to the necklace, but I love the idea of making riding a skill, as it is a skill (one that I will never posess).

Alright, so we have the taming skill, when you tame a dragon they are still prone to their normal paces and if you piss them off (attack them) they are no longer tame. That would allow players the ability to tame a dragon and have one for a friend. One big restriction though, no dragons anywhere neer a town. Imagine what that would do to the livestock ;)

The Riding skill we would have to work on early also, if we go by the Wish skill style (50 levels) then by L4 you would probrobly stop getting thrown off of your horse. You can't ride any animals that fly until at LEAST L30, riding something on an X/Y axis is intiresting, try flying something that goes up and down also... Anyhow, they can't fly anything like a dragon until they are L50 in riding. If this is something that they want to do then they can afford to use those points there.

Personaly, I would stop at L20 or so, get a nice charger and make a paladin styled character ;)
Jerky
Here is my idea of it. Grand Master at taming could befriend a Dragon. They are rideable, but maybe we make a seperate skill (riding) to be able to do that. We could also make the loot of one of the hardest quests (that only a few will ever complete) be an enchanted necklass(or some enchanted/magic item), that when worn you can speak to, befriend and ride dragons. I think that this is just something we can't say no too, it would be way to awesome.
Corky
I would rather not see dragons being rideable in the game because they are way to cool to be ridden like slaves... yea...
Mole
Flying as a form of transportation may be a likely form of transportation, but it may also detract from the game if not balanced.

If anyone can fly on a dragon, then everyone will be out to get a pet dragon to fly around on. If everyone has a dragon to fly around on, then this essentially takes the place of an instant transport system. It may not be quite as fast as instant transport, but it will allow you to get from point A to point B much quicker than if you were just running/walking.

Now what happens if only certain people can fly on dragons. That would give those people an advantage over other players. Eventually people would figure out that this one race has a big advantage over everyone else and soon our world would be populated by only these dragon-rider people.

Is there a way we can balance this out? The idea of only one group of people being able to ride dragons has merit, but it will unbalance the game in favor of those people. Is there something we can use to tip the scales (pardon the pun) so that the balance is once again even?
sblmnl
Mm.. I am really torn about this.. I usually play a "tamer" (actually dislike the term). Developing a relationship with a Dragon is the zenith of what any character with a highly developed rapport and empathetic abilities (aka a "tamer") could aspire to. So it is a goal that could sustain someone like me for the year I expect it'd take to develop enough skill/charisma - and I'm sure I'm not alone.

Adding to the longevity of the game seems like an excellent reason for including Dragons in the list of tamables.

Riding one would be fabulous too of course but.. hmm I could live without it, as long as I could have a mount as well. On the other hand, before we dismiss it out of hand, we should consider that a ridable dragon could be a HUGE drawcard for the game...

Perhaps a compromise could be something like:

Dragon
- Tamable with highest lvl taming/charisma
- Not ridable
- "Tamer" can ride an additional horse-type mount unstabled at the same time (but not a flying mount - it's too much effort to sustain rapport with a dragon at the same time) in addition.
- Non ridable combat pets (War dogs/pumas) have to be stabled.

Flying ridable - a lesser flying beast eg gryphon/hippogryff/winged horse
- Tamable with fairly high taming/charisma
- Ridable
- Can fly with the tamer on its back for a good distance (say the average distance from one town to another).

Neither of these can reasonably be put in a stable, however. There would need to be some kind of artifact, perhaps, crafted from a rare substance in which the tamer and the creature agreed to bind their destinies for a time and which could be used as a summoning device.
Blacksmile
I think to be able to tame flying creatures would be really cool, but dragons... no way they are just a bid to high up... Even fighting a dragon shold be almost impossible even for a group of high level players.
In my opinion there should be restrictions for every player in game, so you still had an area where you wouldnt go without thinking "is it really smart to be here?". And as dragons are one of the most powerful species, i think they should be at least something one can not just kill. They dont need to be agressive at all just make them VERY strong.
SiDima
i don't think we shoould be able to fly on dragons, maybe ourselves or if dragons become a playeble race and another player lets you rid him
Frith-Rae
well I picked that yes we should be able to ride on dragons...

Although "tame" a dragon isn't exactly what I would have in mind, as I too belive it would be a mutual respect thing. But there isn't a "mutual respect" skill int the gam e- we got taming.

It would be up to the person RPing to Rp how that happens.

But I do belive, that if we do NOT have Dragon playables (say only dragonkin like wish), then Dragons should be "tameable" - but of course, only by the most talented - and they still run a risk of "rolling bad" so to speak, and having a dragon turn on them - they'd have to be very attenttive to those moods :).

But I dont think Dragons should be just GM playable, as that keeps them from being a race in the world, in and of themselves. However they should be a very powerful, and smart/difficult mob to beat - or "tame".
GageEndal
Well... from the looks of things the idea of riding a dragon is slim... I personaly think that the Dragons should be the GMs. They are immortal and omnipotent... so are the GMs ;).

And for RP reasons I'm sure that a GM/Dragon could let mortals ride on them... so long as it's within RP purposes ;)
Cobra
Flying on dragons would be amazing.

Lovely idea,




Regards,

Cobra
Timmmy
Dragons a little powerful alright but thats not too much of a problem.As I believe that breeding for the way to populate the world cant see how dragons could be a bad idea.For example no matter how many highly levelled taming chars there are if there is only a small total finite of them it would never get to the stage were many are flying around.And these are very rarely found!

Also I believe not only should it require a number of high levelled to do so,possibly requiring to almost kill it,then capture it,bring it to somewere suitable to heal it and tame it on a huge cart or something and once there spending a long time healing and taming it.And then once tame it must be 'cared' for by feeding it alot of food and rare spices/minerals to keep it tame.Thus although flying dragons could one day become possible it wouldnt be for a long time and then only a select few could manage it.

Probably only a powerful guild could manage such a task and thus it would be cool riding to their city(they'd need to be at this stage to maintain a dragon)to see their guild master rise off from within the palace mounted on the most powerful beast in the land.Note also the terror an enemy would feel seeing such a foe approach leading their army of PC and NPC troops.Very cool!!!

Dwarves,being the least pet loving of the races can therefore construct air transport.However to again stop mass flights they can only construct one per capital level town.They construct blimps but these are also massively powerful allowing mounting of ballistae,flame throwers(greek fire style)and 'bombs' with appropriate additions.

They are fully customisable too,initial blimps being lanched can later be refitted with better fins for steering,greater weapons,larger cargo hold etc.However with great power comes great responsiblity wink.gif.These are among the most expensive objects to craft in the game and require not only massive amounts of materials but also manpower,possibly 100s of hours RL for a single char.Thus yet again mainly only constructable by one or more guilds.Of course such a burden also offers great reward,unlike tamed animals does not require maintaining and can also carry up to fifty people when fully upgraded(only two to start).

Other flying options could be those mentioned but to stop ground transport becoming out dated simply put in some rules to flying such as:

*Can only carry a slight weight
*Lose all non flying pets in the process
*Very high levels only
*Rare to find the creatures that allow you to(obviously as they spend 99% of their time flying).
*No matter your skill it always remains dangerous.

Sorry about the long post,started off as a fast reply! smile.gif
joshpurple
Yea flying!

Lots to consider with it, good points Timmmy.

The more 'physics based' it can be, cool. And nothing against the 'ride' (such as on a large ship, etc.). Being able to use the wind, different races having different flight classes, connecting that all to physics info -would be awesome smile.gif . But, I'll be more than happy to work in stages, and work with far more simple flight systems.
GageEndal
This sounds a lot like world of warcrap to me... they give the hardest to reach pieces to their highest and most powerhungry players and leave the newbies to suffer until they reach those points.

I was more under the impression that we are a roleplaying game instead of a massively multiplayer online game. Flying should be for those who pursue it, a mage who is a low level would learn how to levetate things and as he builds his power could learn to fly, warriors.. not so much.

There is also the matter of the original post I made saying that some races are BORN to fly, pixies, demons and the like. They would be able to do it naturaly, which is a good thing for pixies since they wouldn't have much in the way of the hitpoints.


This is just my opinion in this, but I think that limiting the ability to fly would be a poor choice. My original reason for playing the game City of Heroes was because I heard that you could fly, I've been playing two years now and the reason is still because I can fly around. Don't make it simple, but don't make it elite either. The average player should be able to work up to it without having to worry so hard.
joshpurple
QUOTE(GageEndal @ Sep 27 2006, 10:33 AM)
I was more under the impression that we are a roleplaying game instead of a massively multiplayer online game. Flying should be for those who pursue it,
*



Yup, I agree with that! smile.gif That makes RP sense, and opens things up for players.
Jerky
Hmm, dont misunderstand that flying dragons is not the same as flying a glow wing, or a hippogryph or pegasus. When I said dragons, I meant just dragons. I think there should be mounts that would allow low levels to fly as well.

I think this could be non-game breaking since our world is going to be so large. People will need to travel around quickly, and I know we had talked about limiting insta-travel in the past.

Anyways, I agree.
Jaramar
I'm really quite against players being on powerful mounts (dragons, ect... everyone will want a bloody dragon) unless they have been earned through serious RP effort. I don't mean that as in completing X amount of quests either, but if the GMs have seen them at it for a long time and doing well they might set up a special quest with this end result. Beyond that I want pets to work much as my post here: http://forums.projectwish.com/index.php?showtopic=5018 .

(Reposted here for review. You can only ride what you can TAME.)

Basic starting ideas... I'll weave this a bit finer later if I remember.

Pets could fall into several catagories:

Typical:
-You can get these guys from vendors. These tend to be the horses and you need low level taming checks to use most of them.

Wild:
-These are wild critters that are more powerful and exotic then your typical fare and require a higher level taming check. Alternatively you can use low grade magic to 'charm' them for a little while.

Magical:
-Things with big pointy fangs but not supersized, perhaps with an extremely high taming check you'll manage to get on one's good side but it will not be easy. To 'charm' these for a little while you have to overcome both a moderate grade magic check as well as a magical critter's spell resistance.

Mythical:
-This is where you get into things like smaller dragons which are intelligent, fierce, and untrainable. With an extremely high grade magic check you might manage to 'charm' one for a short time assuming you also get beyond the spell resistance and anything else thrown at you... which is unlikely.

Intelligent Creatures:
-These tend to be untrainable, though occasionally they may wish to join you as a companion of sorts. They can, however, be charmed with the check varying on the creature.

Summons:
-Creatures from the elemental planes, undead, shadows... all these would require summoning of various degrees.

Constructs:
-Finally the mighty golems, the type and size and function depending upon what it is crafted for much as a droid was in SWG. These represent a large investment which will be lost eventually.

Certain types of creature hate other kinds so the player will have to figure out what things they can have near other things. Also the animals require a portion of thier concentration... going over the concentration limit means they can wander off or attack you and you may be unable to fight effectively yourself if you are barking commands all the time.

Tamed pets are yours for life unless killed or mistreated.

Charmed pets only have a short duration but are far more powerful... also at random points during the spell, the creature will be allowed to make a save. If it makes the save twice it is free from your spell and will immediately attack you.

Summons land between the two; they are more powerful then tamed pets, however they have a limited span of time they can be summoned for before they fade out... intelligent summoned creatures are allowed to make a save like charmed creatures and if they save twice they manage to break free and return to thier home regardless of how much time is left on the spell.

Constructs are also yours for life but typically do not enter into combat roles except for high cost specialized ones. These act of a creature with summoned strength that is yours forever... however it will either stop working or act erratically (perhaps attacking you) if you fail a skill check and even if your skill is way above what is needed it still likely that it will fail at least once or twice an hour.
Timmmy
GageEndal I meant high level tamers that is people who have been taming for a long time.Sure land animals know freedom running around but imagine how much more freedom a flying animal has!It can run around just like land animals but it can also soar high into the sky and explore place most others cannot.Therefore taming(effectively taking away its own agenda/freedom)should be much harder for flying critters than land ones.

I totally dont mean this to be WoW like,I'm far more a believer in RP and being rewarded for what you put your efforts into.That is that sure you're a level one million mage but that means nothing when you come to taming for the first time your a noob!

I was awfully tempted to drop a game name to show you the sort of system I think would work but dont think it would be right.Basically a player in the game is only good at what they do.A person could build themself a nice home and live their all their life crafting furniture,another could farm fields,another sail ships,another fight for their kingdom and another stalk the lands at night feeding on the blood of innocents.My point is that they are good at what they do.

As mentioned before a Dungeon Siege style of skilling would work much better here than levelling and picking skills you've never touched on.Thus the high level tamer would have access to powerful pets but mightn't know which end of a sword to hold.Hope this clarrifies my point a bit?

Jaramar some nice ideas.Id like to see the typical pets possibly being supplied by the player so that tamers have an actual trade.That is a player could tame a horse,ride it into town and sell it in the stables.Two minutes later somebody walks in and says,nice horse Ill take it!Hooray for player economies! smile.gif
Jaramar
QUOTE(Timmmy @ Sep 27 2006, 05:40 PM)
Jaramar some nice ideas.Id like to see the typical pets possibly being supplied by the player so that tamers have an actual trade.That is a player could tame a horse,ride it into town and sell it in the stables.Two minutes later somebody walks in and says,nice horse Ill take it!Hooray for player economies! smile.gif
*



Yeah, that sorta thing is great, though wild horses would be different them your typical run of the mill horses... a bit faster and harder to tame and keep. (Maybe like 50 taming to initially tame, 30 or 40 to keep it from returning to a wild state and leaving you... that way you could sell it for the less fortunate.) That way people don't NEED to powerlevel thier ride skills... but if you allow dragon style mounts you can bet 9/10 players will powerlevel ride skills to get said damn bloody dragon mount and your "expert tamers" will be nothing more then a normal player without other skills that RPs his bit.

Also, why flying mounts won't mess up the economy TOO much is...

...Weight Limits. biggrin.gif A flying mount could only carry a very small amount of cargo along with thier rider. Meanwhile the merchant on the horse could also have a cart, saddlebags, and an additional donkey tied to the back of the cart and take TONS with them.
Jerky
P.S. Dragons will be rare. There will only be a certain amount of them in the game, and they will not be respawning like other creatures. They will be hard to ride, and players who do get to do it will have a time limit. No player will be able to "hog" the limited dragons. This is just my idea that I have had all along, so I figured that I would clarify, since there seems to be a few assumptions being made.

Other mounts are a different story. One thing UO did which made for a great game, which Wish did to a certain extent was to not have super uber-unique items. The game was fun on its own merits, not because of a treadmill to get the best gear. Wish did this with horses and donkey's. You could use your starting out money to get a horse if you wanted. This helps players get into the game quicker and feel like they are not behind.

The depth of the true game will then show through, as it is not shalow enough to allow everyone to do everything at start, but some things which other games made hard to do, were simple to do in Wish. I think this is something we can do with mounts. We can allow mounts even to newbies, but only the simple ones. As the progression goes on, better mounts will be available/affordable.
Matlush
Didn't read it all, soo... Here's what i think: Mounts, well, why not, but they should have some kind of stamina. And getting such a mount would require some high taming skill, and such tamed animal could still break out.

About players flying: A flying player uses more stamina than the walking one, and if a flying player loses all his stamina in flight, he falls down to the ground (but while falling he regains stamina, giving him ability to take less damage)
joshpurple
Would wizards be able to polymorph into mounts, and give party members a ride?
(only at a very powerful sill level, magical item ? ). Or polymorph horses into Pegasi?
KingNothing
How about the theory of evolution, would work with project wish? Like you could push the same tamed lizard again and again into the sea from a high cliff and it would develop wings? Or maybe you could jump yourself and develop your wings that way? Start=No flying skills
Maxwell
That is a very different Idea. It kind of links with a post in a different thread about players in a skill based system just jumping around everywhere to up there jumping skills. I can't seem to find it but I know its around here somewhere.
goatboy
QUOTE(KingNothing @ Oct 19 2006, 07:33 PM) *

How about the theory of evolution, would work with project wish? Like you could push the same tamed lizard again and again into the sea from a high cliff and it would develop wings? Or maybe you could jump yourself and develop your wings that way? Start=No flying skills

Hah, that was so funny it made me choke and collapse. I'm not saying the idea is bad, just the idea of someone pushing a little lizard off a cliff and hoping it'll learn to fly is hilarious. Might be something to it though smile.gif
Void
QUOTE(goatboy @ Nov 30 2006, 06:25 AM) *

Hah, that was so funny it made me choke and collapse. I'm not saying the idea is bad, just the idea of someone pushing a little lizard off a cliff and hoping it'll learn to fly is hilarious. Might be something to it though smile.gif


Might me something to it though?? A dead lizard is my guess. smile.gif

But I like the theory of evolving like that, but maybe a less drastic method. Possibly using tools to fly at first, like wings you took from a dragon, that way it makes it hard to do, and not everyone could.
Minthos
One way I can picture dragon taming working, would be using the ability system I've proposed in a previous thread, copied (slightly modified) below.

To unlock the ultimate abilities a skill can offer, one has to not only concentrate on(read: 'grind') that skill for a long long time, but also pour more than half their ability points into that skill, sacrificing much to excel in that single skill.

One could either have just a 'taming' skill that needs to be maxed out to be able to tame dragons, or a specialized 'dragon taming' skill that again depends on a high taming skill. A very own skill for taming dragons would allow a more gradual increase in a player's abilities when dealing with dragons.

To make it really dragonic (pun intended), a dragon tamer could be required to be a master tamer, and a specialist dragon tamer(summing up to 112 out of 137 max ability points) to be able to tame dragons. Or have master 'ride' and specialist 'tame' maybe, to ride a dragon, and just specialist 'tame' to tame it.

QUOTE

A character gets a maximum of 137 points to distribute. (*)

Up to a certain level, skills are free.
To take advantage of higher skill levels unlock cool abilities, they need to invest points into that skill.

First rank (apprentice) costs 1 point
Second rank (journeyman) costs 5 points
Third rank (master) costs 20 points
Fourth rank (specialist) costs 60 points

Thus, a master skill would require a total investment of 26 points, a specialist skill would require 86 points total.

Results of this would be that:

A specialist can choose one master skill as well, and if he does, max 4 journeyman skills (86 + 26 + 4*6 = 136). If he doesen't want to have a master skill, he can then choose up to 8 journeyman skills (86 + 8*6 = 134).

A non-specialist can choose 5 master skills, 1 journeyman skill and 1 apprentice skill, or 22 journeyman skills and 5 apprentice skills, or something in between.

* I don't know how this "max 137 points" limit should be enforced, but I think 137 would be a good number.

more details on skill stuff in this thread.
FLintCLeaver
hmmm interesting though i still agree wiht the idea of having lower levels the chance to get simple mounts and leave dragons to majorly commited players.
uulonze
Dragon taming. I missed UO. Flying mount or flying in game becoming more and more polular. You can leave the combat mount for tamer and rest get non-combat type.
zicyo
It seems that the real problem is the assumption that most players don´t RP and are just going for all the best stuff. Is it not possible to build a game world that makes people RP instead of Powergaming?

One solution is perhaps to focus on "real" social skills, like in a community where good rep. give good treats, and of course implemented so it cannot be abused. And you need those skills to get a dragon or other rare stuff. I mean if you have worked your way up in the community (perhaps you are "elected" King by the whole country) you get some rare skills/benefit, which you loose if you abdicate or are "unelected" smile.gif Just an example...

There must be more players than I who loves to see the sun set while fishing (like in WoW) or just wander in a lush forest chasing butterflies with my friends and perhaps killing a fearsome wolf which has slain some of my sheep?

What do you think?
Maxwell
See I always hear people talking about this kind of stuff, how people RP in mmoRPGs but I never have seen anybody actually do it. I LOVE the idea though. I guess my question is how could you actually implement this, to put a guiding hand toward players to make the RP?
zicyo
QUOTE(Maxwell @ Apr 9 2007, 01:03 AM) *

See I always hear people talking about this kind of stuff, how people RP in mmoRPGs but I never have seen anybody actually do it. I LOVE the idea though. I guess my question is how could you actually implement this, to put a guiding hand toward players to make the RP?


Yeah, I really tried when I was playing WoW, but its hard to find players. And the game doesn´t support or encourage to it. (Yeah, they have got RP-servers but its always up to the players)

This is perhaps slightly out of topic, but I will continue for this time.

When I was thinking of my dream game, I saw before me much of the stuff you already have mentioned (such as factions, kingdoms, guilds) and I saw lots of user created content (mostly quests, but also building own villages, the ability to "build" caves and dig holes/wells and really alter the landscape)

I think if the game world rewards doing good things to other players; you have to really cooperate to get powerful or get influence in the world, there is a greater chance that people RP more. The concept I was thinking of is that when the game world is born (I saw it like small countries with 300-500 PC and lots of countries) all the players were NPC. Then the player was "born" into a family or guild depending on the character preferences, and about the age of 12 or something. And ageing = leveling.

And you replace/take over the NPC as your PC. The reincarnation idea I read of before in the forums fits perfectly here I think. The idea is that when you are logged out the PC becomes an NPC, and you can do some limited amount of "grinding" stuff by setting a queue of stuff (like in most RTS). Ofcoures the character cant die or be attacked when you are logged off, but we get a world where people dont spawn in front of you all in a sudden. (really really really dont like spawing. Oh look! The Bandit King is alive...AGAIN!! Better that a new Bandit King (new name and randomized in some way) comes roaming over the fields with his gang, finds the cave and settles in. Oops, really lost track...sorry.

Then you gain professions in your guild, perhaps start your own workshop, perhaps employing people, getting known and rich. In time perhaps youre elected into the guild council (which decides the current main production of the guild or other important stuff such as guild colors :-), later you become yet more liked by your peers and are elected into the town council or even the council in the main city. And now you really have something to say, set taxes, raise armies. BUT you are not alone, there should be atleast five persons in the council, and all have to agree to the changes you want to make.

And to make this work I had an idea of GMs playing the "high" roles at first, but by time, be replaced by the PCs who strive for the position of a council member. This works in LARP anyway, where the GMs have roles with great responsibility and influence, to be able to interact when things go out of hand. And then give room for upcomers or new heroes.

This way we get really active GMs (they can help by RPing more than just act as a service desk) and that makes it possible for the game creators to get a kick out of the game to. And if we have active GMs that RPs in a good way, they set the standard! And people will follow, or else they feel stupid (I would at least).

One more thing, I was thinking that why not deliver the world in episodes, like start with one country (a limited part of the world) which you can test really hard. Release it, and see it grows and fill out with players, then the next month (or when the country is getting "full") release a new country (The Courageos Dwarfs blows a hole in the closed pass and can easily get into the next country). That way you can release more and more content, test it really good, and you dont have to have a perfect world right at start. And the releases depends on how many players there are and how much resources the project have to support and develop new content. Just a thought.

Ok, just some ideas. I will dig through the forums more, perhaps all this is old news, and that would be good news because there is a chance it gets implemented ;-)
glibdud
QUOTE(zicyo @ Apr 9 2007, 04:35 AM) *

The idea is that when you are logged out the PC becomes an NPC, and you can do some limited amount of "grinding" stuff by setting a queue of stuff (like in most RTS).


I've been keeping a journal of game ideas, and one of the core elements is something similar to this. Basically the idea is to offload the more mindless "grinding" aspects of the game to something that gets done automatically. The player would be given a limited number of hours per day with which to do things like train, collect resources, or even just do odd jobs for a little pocket change. Of course, there would be some prerequisite requiring active play... exploring to find the location of the resources, hiring the trainer, etc. Other interesting things could be rolled into it too, like contributing labor hours to a community construction project.
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